Foreign Affairs - Volume 2

[Jon Miller]

yah

I realised that when I was playing, but did not mention it

however, that is bad for us and Lux

Jon Miller

[Dis]

The difference isn't that much right now. Territory explored does increase the score. So obviously we are down on that. And I think we are 1 or 2 techs behind. But other than that we are in the thick of things.

The only problems I see now are juggling the tasks of expansion and a possible war. We are devoting resources to cranking out settlers, but if we are in an imminent war this could be a problem.

[Beta]

I've given this some more thought, and think we may be over-reacting a bit to GS. Although I'm sure they were not honest on one point. But I also think that they have no other contacts, nor do they have a tech lead. Here's my logic.

They started with masonry and c.burial. They would have researched the wheel right from the start to get chariots (which would have been murder if not for our terrain - if we were in the plains next to them - then I would be scared). Let's assume they are researching at a higher rate than us - ie more city tile improvements and faster growing cities - the wheel is only a 40 beeker tech, so at a faster rate, let's say they finished it when we were half way through iron working (60 beekers).

Then they started on Alphabet - (50 beekers). I'm pretty sure they are not finished. I think they are fishing somewhat with this request.

They picked up pottery from a hut. And they traded with us for bronze working.

They have six techs (actually only five if they have not finished Alphabet) and we have six techs. They have a somewhat faster research rate, but not dramatically. We now have a doubled research rate courtesy of Lux, and improved research at home now that we are starting to improve tiles.

Where they may have lied to us was when they approached us about the bronze working trade. I think they had already finished the wheel, and were underway with Alphabet. They told us they were in between techs to rush us into the trade.

So - I think the situation is OK. We should pull away from them in research courtesy of the Lux deal. But we clearly cannot let GS contact Lux in the short term.

The question comes back to the iron deal. We need to claim one, if not both sources of iron before we do the trade. That is going to take awhile. It will be difficult to drag it out that long - but there really isn't much they can do about it. With swordsmen there would be.

In conclusion, I think that GS may actually be fairly desperate - and somewhat scared. They haven't met anyone yet. They think we have. They envision a stream of Immortals coming over the mountains. I think a toned down but still somewhat indignant letter, combined with us a "woe is us" reference about our lack of land, may be the right response. That will buy a few more turns. And then we can simply say no - and force them to research it themselves. By then we will have both sources of iron.

I'm writing this at noon hour here. I have an early evening meeting and will be back home around 8pm est time.

(one other thought - if we go for the fish-what site first - that city will have to grow once to reach the iron - ie will need a temple. This will take time. There is no site this side of the mountains which can get us the iron with the initial placement. Do we want to consider Witt's city site on the east coast first Gets it with the initial site, but also makes it pretty clear to GS as to what we are up to. I know, I know. I argued the other way around. And there is still some logic to it. But we will need a temple. Could also use a colony - but that is way to obvious - but do we care.)

(and a last thought - but way too late - I don't think we should have done the bronze-wheel trade. Did diddly squat for us, and would have forced them to research bronze - and presumably abandon some research on Alphabet. Ah well, spilt milk. )

[Dis]

the thing is from their PM it would seem they are only 1 turn away from alphabet. Or they are 1 turn away from trading alphabet. I'm curious how they did this.

[Dis]

I have another idea for stalling. We won't tell them this yet, because we don't want them to know we already have Iron Working.

Although we could tell them we have it from at trade with the "other" nation- which is true. And we agreed not to trade it to any other nation for 40 turns . A little twist on their patent program.

[Wittlich]

Good point Dissident, it would be using their (GS) patent program against them.

See Jon's newest thread concerning getting the alphabet from Lux...Talk about a twist! But maybe we could use Jon's suggestion and yours (ie, tell GS we recieved iron working and alphabet from our northern neighbor with the agreement that we can not trade these advances with anyone else for 20 turns).
That should throw a wrench into their works!

[Kuciwalker]

re: city sites

I don't know, I guess we'd look for GS trying to grab those sites. I'm just trying to think up a way to find out if Spain is trustworthy.

[Beta]

sky... why?

(hey - that rhymes )

[Dis]

the easy way is not to tell Spain/Roleplay anything important

[Wittlich]

Besides, we don't have any contact with Spain/Roleplay - so at the present, the point of them being trustworthy is rather mute.

[Beta]

edit - deleted quote of previous message

[Beta]

Originally posted by BetaHound
As per jon'a chat with Lux, here is my letter, which I sent this morning, to Lux proposing the Alphabet trade for gold and also informing them of our research time. We need to look at our slider options. If whoever plays the turn next could note the various options down (the realistic ones, inlcuding a loss per turn of say up to 5-6 gold), for discussion purposes, it would be appreciated.

Hello CalcII. Greetings to Lux from Vox. I understand that you or another member of Lux have recently been discussing with jon miller the sale of Alphabet as part of our on-going technology deal.

To that end, I am proposing a trade of 15 gold immediately, and one gold per turn fro 20 turns in exchange for Alphabet.

Also, you had asked about our research time for Mysticism. As of last turn - 2230BC I believe - we had 26 turns to go. However, there may be room to adjust the 'slider' and improve our research time, without bankrupting the treasury. That is under discussion by our esteemed, yet busy, VEC. (Voxian Economic Council).

We appreciate that we have a somwhat slower research rate than you. As we have discussed earlier, we have been forced to forego city tile improvements in favor of building a road to ensure we could expand off the limited landmass that is North Estonia. We currently have a worker toiling to catch-up on needed city tile improvements, so we expect our research rate to pick up.

I trust all is well with the people of Lux. I look forward to hearing from you on the proposed trade, and as soon as we have concluded our 'slider' discussions, we will let you know.

Cheers! BetaHound

(ps - also sending this note to BFM, as requested by Jon)

[Wittlich]

Looks good Beta - but why did you quote yourself?

[Dis]

sound good.

The slider that I did check. We can move to 80% for a -1 loss (I think) and research in 20 turns. 19 next turn of course.

edit: I have exact figures. as of last turn

70% (which we are at) 0 per turn gold, and 26 turns
80% -1 gold per turn, 20 turns
90% -2 gold per turn 16 turns
100% same as 90%

[Beta]

Because as Eli once pointed out in a early chat - and which has now been carved in stone in punkbass2000's signature, I can't use a keyboard. And now look what I have done. I edited out the original instead of the quote. sigh.

I'm at work when I do some of this stuff, and I have a silly notebook computer on a reasonably high desk, and it is a pain to use. And I try to do some of it a hurry in between staff, or the Commissioner (my boss) coming into my office. Probably not a good idea.

Anyways - here is punkbass' signature. I don't know how long I will have to endure it. What is ironic is that he is quoting the team that is clearly the fastest playing team in the game. Hah - take that. Maybe we should bring that to his attention and have him say something nasty about Legoland instead.

"Flash isn't here [to receive the save file], BetaHound doesnt know how to use a keyboard and I have to go in 5 minutes." - The C3PTWDG, running at full capacity. It's worse than we predicted "