Vox's Coming War

[Togas]

This Thread must remain ABSOLUTELY secret. Do not talk to anyone outside our team about this!

I had a meeting with Betahound & Eli today about their recent build-up. We talked hypothetically about different possibilities of what would happen if they went to war with either "bob civs" or GS. Here is the result of that discussion:

Legoland was cleared. They are not attacking them. We can safely sign a MPP with Legoland.

I gave them the details of our Bob Pact and explained that we could remain neutral due to our Non-Agg with Vox. They didn't talk much about this possibility, most of the discussion was about:

If they went to war with GS:

They requested that we not buy anything from GS, and requested that we make sales ASAP with GS ... so long as it's not war tech.

They want to pre-sell us Engineering for 120 at the start of war, 120 10 turns later. This will allow them to upgrade more immortals. They would give us Engineering once they got it.

I told them how GS will soon have Feudalism. They understood the window of opportunity to attack is shrinking. If war happens, it will be VERY soon.

They will sell us or give us their WM after the war is over so that we may see the GS lands to our east.

They understand that GS has a very powerful economy, and there is some reluctance to attack them. (basically, they need a little outside support).

They want us to "pay no attention" to what goes on in the PTW public forum as they are going to likely claim to reinvade Bob. Asked us to continue our pro-Bob stance in public.

If they do this attack, it is in our best interest to get other nations (GoW & ND) to also give $$$ to Vox to help their war effort vs GS. If war starts we should try to get covert international support to give them funds to topple the GS regime.

Please post your thoughts and comments. It is possible that they will invade Bob, but the majority of the conversation was on GS.

--Togas

[Togas]

Note: We NEED to get GoW to give us cash for Monarchy. We could use that cash to pre-buy Engineering from Vox (possibly throw in Monarchy to lower price), thereby giving Vox the cash they need to upgrade immortals.

--Togas

[OliverFA]

There is no much choice for Vox. They need to go to war with anyone to catch with the other civs. I'd willing to bet for an ale and squid at the tavern agains anyone who thinks they are not going to war (some easy money!).

We are going to have war very soon, and they can only be GoW or GS. If it is GS we would do good in supporting Vox in all those ways because that would strengthen a weak opponent and make ans strong one weaker.

[ThePlagueRat]

We should indeed give support to the opposite party of whom ND gives support... Just to gain a "casus belli" against them, and perhaps even we'll make an ally against those heretics.

Right, but we have to look deeper into the bigger political picture before we can support any sides in a conflict. Your Majesty might know a bit more about this big picture, can you tell us some please?

- Don Alvarez de Plaguates.

[CiverDan]

I agree that GoW will attack GS soon. They have no choice. They are the only civ that is boxed in at this point in the game. Now it's clear why they attempted to settle on Bob. We would probably do the same thing in their shoes. Regarding support for Vox, I like the idea. But we have to be very careful. I ND sides with GS and finds out that we are helping Vox, it could start a war here, possible before we want to (that is, if we want to attack ND in the short term).

[Nuclear Winter]

I´d Place my bets on a war with GS. Almost impossible for tehm to fight the economically-stronger/military-stronger/sea-protected civs of BoB.

[History Guy]

I agree. It is war with the Egyptians. And I say, support the bloody mad Persians, just this once. Also, if the Arabs support them, and fight us for it...all the better. Let's get this bloody thing finished before they get their Ansars.

May God bless us in our endeavors.

Amen.

Cardinal Calamari

[Togas]

I had a short conversation with Ghengis Farb about Vox. I wanted to feel him out about the possibilities, and speak hypothetically about what they would do if Vox invaded Terra Nostra again. GF didn't seem too concerned about that possibility, he believes they are going after GS. He implied that he has had several conversations with Vox about it, and also implied that GoW would help Vox in their war.

He stated that GS has a monopoly of furs and incense on their half of the continent. He'd like to get a piece of those.

He believes that GS's iron can be cut, thus keeping them from getting Pikemen and Med. Inf. He implied that Vox and GoW were "searching" the edges of the continent to find the iron resource so it could be cut.

He said that GoW was saving up cash to buy Feudalism from GS. I told him that if war broke out, he won't want to go through with that purchase. I tried to find out from him who else was researching Feudal but he didn't say (or didn't know).

He invited us to participate in the war. We have no ships, but we could have some soon. The idea is one that I will consider. Sending 4 swordsmen behind the lines could cause some serious damage and turn the tide of the war to Vox.

--Togas

[ruby_maser]

Vox and GoW must be made to understand that there are signals which GS could detect that will devalue or destroy the surprise element they need for a successful invasion.

Some cannot be helped. We have to go on under the assumption that GS has monitored their military advisor and now knows of the blitz upgrade that Vox recently initiated. They may also be aware of the fact that they are being probed by Gow and Vox ships.

Anything that can be done to limit the damage of such overtly aggressive actions should be done, and they need to understand that numero uno is to not cut off GS diplomatically. They need to maintain the facade of friendly relations, downplay any anxieties that GS may express to them, and get GS to let their guard down, and we will need to do so as well if we intend to participate in the hostilities.

[astrologix]

Currently we don't have enough forces to go to invade GS.

We MUST keep our swordmen force ready to attack ND if needed. And Madrid must continue to produce ground units.

But once Barcelona finishes its Harbor we could start producing Galleys instead of a settler in that city. It would allow us to change our mind if it becomes necessary.

[GodKing]

Should be interesting. I would hesitate to side with either one. Lets be the US around WW1 - lets not get involved unless someone forces us to.

[OliverFA]

Our defense is the top priority. No question about that.

However there are several small things we can do (such as a trade embargo and so) to help Vox. We have nothing against GS other than it is a rival civ and that it would serve our interest to weaken GS and strenghten Vox.

Later when our military is big enough to send some of them without risk we could send some military help, but now the ND menace is much more important.

[CiverDan]

4 swords is a bit much. I would put the limit at two. I agree that are military must be focused at ND.

[Togas]

Gathering Storm has reached their apex. They are now a Republic and their commerce rates in their compact, ultra-efficient nation dwarf the rest of us. Given time and financing they will not just lead the world, they will surpass the world by leaps and bounds. And given such superiority they will surly strike out in ships from their continent and capture valuable luxuries to strengthen their trade and grow their cities.

We have all of the luxuries: Silk, Spices, Ivory, Gems. We will have a monopoly on Silk and Ivory. Spice and Gems are so rare we will be the only nation able to trade them.

Neu Dem will grow and then must decide who to war with. Frankly, I believe that we can bring GoW into a war against ND if they attack us, and I will order a strike on ND if they attack GoW. I believe that GoW + RP can contain ND.

The only nation that can hope to contain GS is Vox -- a pitiful nation with no luxuries, few natural resources, and no land. They will be the next nation to be eliminated unless they make this bold move, and even with this bold move I give them 1:4 odds of victory.

However, a bold attack by Vox gives us hope ... hope that GS's growth and power can be curtailed, and hope that one of our major future competators can be contained ... at least for a while longer. If GS is forced to spend production and energy on military, that's production lost from their economic and research powerhouse. We could see them drop back to earth and perhaps even lose a few key cities. This would be wonderful.

If Spain could send a few "volunteers" to attack GS along with GoW forces, our "Coalition" might actually destroy or permanently cripple GS. At the cost of a few swords? It's a bargain.

GoW would be on board. We could get ND on board with some sort of "Bob alliance" pep-talk. If ND can't send units, we ask them to send gold to Vox instead. Hell, if we can't send units, I'd agree to Vox's pre-buy for Engineering and send them cash to use to destroy GS.

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

Something that is missing from this discussion - what will ND do when GoW sends units off to war with GS? Sounds like a ripe opportunity to invade. We might even encourage them to, so that we could then sink our fangs into their south flank.