Competition for General of the Army of Spain

[LzPrst]

Courier: "Assuming Neu Dem does not build any further southern cities, you have 20 turns to amass an attack force. What do you build? Where do you station your units? How do you strike?"

Capitan Nuñez: Oy veh! Has Lord Togas had too much wine? We dont even have a settler to ensure us Iron!
And what cities had barracks? Saragossa? Pamplona? You forgot to tell me. Madrid will build one!? Without properly trained units an invasion is madness.
An attack in 20 cycles is near impossible as far as I see it. Anyone who tells you differently has a very optimistic view of our forces.

I would first of all have a barrax built in saragossa, a settler in pamplona followed by barrax then horsemen in both cities until we have a large supply of iron coming in.
We dont need a spearman to escort the settler, the Guerra Obs and/or the Feocalvos can take care of it.
Madrid should build barrax before building spearmen, it seems that everyone assumes regular units will do.
They WONT!
My soldiers were nearly defeated by a bunch of barbarians that were as green as a 13-year-old holding a spear for the first time due to pure BAD LUCK!

The Deamons are not idiots. They'll have more troops in their capital by now and their soldiers may well sent to be stationed in Marlow, as a starting point for invasion and/or as a defense that can cut off any army we send north. To counter that we should move a horseman on the far western coast and pillage the road between them making sure they dont strengthen the capital with any spearmen/swordsmen.

Diplomatically I think we should trash our diplomatic channels with GoW, and move troops north telling ND that we dont want to fight on our own land, that's why our troops are so close to their borders. If Gow joins the Deamons when we attack, then boohoo for them, we will have crippled ND by the time a GoW expeditionary force can reach us and they wont like to stand against us without their powerful ally.

The Plan:
When we have an army (The Slayers) consisting mostly of some 6-8 horsemen + 3-4 spearmen + a few of our upgraded warrior-swordsmen we send them three leagues (squares) northeast then straight north from Saragossa, keeping out of view until we reach Neu Theben's borders.
We'll be standing on the mountain on the outside of their borders then move west into their borders, obviously an act of war. Hopefully we can insult them then into declaring war on us, if not we declare and kick their asses. Our horsemen should then charge their capital (ND might try to seize the closest mountain blocking a slow swordsman army making that tactic risky) and burn it!

We should have a warrior or two (The Scouts) spread out in, and north of, the jungle to make sure we're not detected by the enemy. They wont see warriors as a threat nor will they think its part of an invasion force.

After that we should make a stand in the mountains with the remaining spearmen and horsemen, "Slayer A", keeping any enemies from moving south through the pass.
The swordsmen, "Slayer B", should stay on the mountains, moving north in groups positioning themselves in strategic locations. We should possibly sacrifice a few horsemen to destroy their roads and production capabilities further north.

By the time we have gotten that far we'll have more swordsmen trained in cow valley, "The Banishers", will push up and take Marlow. After burning those particular fools the conquering army will move further north joining Slayer Corps A and march to the remaining cities of the enemy.
We should have a map of their land, but remember, we CANNOT trade maps until after we have the iron connection.

That is my current strategic analysis. I'll revise it a little (possibly a lot) but I dont believe 20 cycles is enough to prepare such an offensive.

[OliverFA]

Thanks for allowing me to ask the next question, my Lord.

Gentlemen:

We are assuming that, in the case of an attack, the Neu Daemons will come through the land were our two northern cities (Saragossa and Santiago) are settled. But what if they attack Madrid directly from the East? Do you think it is possible? If yes: Do you have a plan to be prepared, or react quickly enough, against this posibility? If no: Why?

Señor Godking has already asked you about what is your ultimate goal concerning the Neu Daemons in case of an attack. But, if they don't attack, should we attack once we are ready?
If yes: We have lots of unsettled land. So, why conquer even more land? Or why upset the other nations appearing as the bad guys?
If no: Can we afford having a powerful and dangerous enemy to our north? Is it safe?

Thanks for your attention, and I wait for your answers.

[astrologix]

Originally posted by oliverfa
We are assuming that, in the case of an attack, the Neu Daemons will come through the land were our two northern cities (Saragossa and Santiago) are settled. But what if they attack Madrid directly from the East? Do you think it is possible? If yes: Do you have a plan to be prepared, or react quickly enough, against this posibility? If no: Why?

Señor Fernandez, I don't fear such an attack, because the lands to reach Madrid directly are wild and consequently hard to cross by an army. We will of course patrol this area to detect this possibility. But think on this : if the Neu Demons were coming from the North of Madrid we could have two possibilities : a) Attack directly against the ND capital with a great offensive army, since the main forces of the ennemy would be on the long way to Madrid, while keeping many defensive forces in Madrid (well defended on hills) and surroundings. b) redirect part of our offensive forces to Madrid in order to fight them before they reach our mountains and hills. I think in any case such an attack could take us by surprise, and we allways could react since we could move faster than them using our roads.

Señor Godking has already asked you about what is your ultimate goal concerning the Neu Daemons in case of an attack. But, if they don't attack, should we attack once we are ready?

Good question señor Fernandez. As a General, I allways would have a powerful army, ready to attack, but I'm not the Great Despot ! I think that having a peaceful expansion is allways a good solution, while having strong defense positions and well trained attack forces ready to execute well planned actions to destroy our ennemies.

If yes: We have lots of unsettled land. So, why conquer even more land? Or why upset the other nations appearing as the bad guys?

As I already have said, I am a noble fighter, Señor Fernandez. I think all countries should have enough lands to growth peacefully. But if it appears that other evil peoples could become a serious threat against the vital expansion of our Glorious Empire, we should fight them.

If no: Can we afford having a powerful and dangerous enemy to our north? Is it safe?

Probably not. But we should have evidences that such people is stronger than us and that they plan to fight against us. And our Military Advisor has recently said that our army is again average as theirs.

Don't forget that GoW will allways be a threat against ND. We should first exploit this diplomatically to ensure that we are not going to be the first target of ND. I think that after the Lux elimination we should work of convincing ND that the following people to be whiped out should be the Chinese, not us.

Don Pelayo Astronicus

[mrmitchell]

Milord Grand Despot Togas,

Might I ask a question of these fine men?

The following is not the question I intend to ask, however, I just couldn't resist the urge.
---

We will of course keep the symbol as an ironic grin.

Like this?

[pikesfan]

Guifré Pikesfan brings a scroll from his late uncle Eduardì

Great Lord Togas,

As you all know, my late uncle Eduardì was a very frightened old man. The reports of the great war to our north frightened him so badly that he took to his bed and tried to stay as much under the blankets as possible. My poor old uncle thought that if the blankets covered him, no Arab could see him. “The cat! The cat!” he would moan. “Who will save my school from the yellow cat?”

We were all very surprised when we told him the news of this competition for he sat up in bed for the first time in weeks and called loudly for a scroll and a quill and wrote a question. “Take it to the Palace, Guifré,” he told me, “I have long been a foolish old man, but even foolish old men can point out something that the wise overlook. Lord Togas will make a wise decision no matter what, but perhaps my question will remind the generals of something. Ah me, I am dying! I leave you the school, Guifré.”

Lord Togas, I beg leave to fulfill my uncle’s dying wish and ask this question of the competitors.

Guifré Pikesfan

[Togas]

Guifre Pikesfan,

Who am I to deny a dieing man his last wish? You may also ask the candidates a question.

--Togas

[ThePlagueRat]

Originally posted by oliverfa
We are assuming that, in the case of an attack, the Neu Daemons will come through the land were our two northern cities (Saragossa and Santiago) are settled. But what if they attack Madrid directly from the East? Do you think it is possible? If yes: Do you have a plan to be prepared, or react quickly enough, against this posibility? If no: Why?

Neo Daemons attacking from NE is possible. However, not the most likely. Anyway, we should station major parts of our attack force in Madrid until it is clear that we are going to take Neu Theben. So if they go through the NE jungle or hills, we would meet them there and kill them all. An attack on us will come slow through harsh terrain, and we can react quickly enough when we have the patrol units and road network operative.

In the case we are attacking Neo Theben at the same time
they are attacking Madrid from NE, (not very likely, but could happen) then we should try to defend Madrid while taking Neo Theben. We cannot afford having loads of troops garrisoning Madrid while we are being offensive, so this would be bad.
In this case it's kind of a draw, and we should have to resolve diplomatically.

Originally posted by oliverfa
Señor Godking has already asked you about what is your ultimate goal concerning the Neu Daemons in case of an attack. But, if they don't attack, should we attack once we are ready?
If yes: We have lots of unsettled land. So, why conquer even more land? Or why upset the other nations appearing as the bad guys?
If no: Can we afford having a powerful and dangerous enemy to our north? Is it safe?

Good, critical questions...
The plans are on this stage hypothetical sketches. I would be tempted to answer yes, but I think we better wait a bit more than 20 galactic cycles until we launch any such plan.

We can settle some more lands in the meantime and build the infrastructure. Thus, the we will have more military production locations during a war. If our army don't get properly reinforced, and the enemy manages to reinforce theirs, we will lose.

In fact I would recommend attacking them, because if we don't they can be much more powerful in the future and even attack us. Si señor... It's not safe to have them there. Besides, the Spanish army is in great need of more glory and experience.

The problem is: If we have no diplomatic 'excuse' we will be the ones who will look like bloodthirsty maneaters, and we can make even more enemies. I think GoW should be tempted into attacking ND, and then we get involved. We need a plot who involves GoW as warmongers somehow...
It's not because of land we should conquer them, it's because of their ill-doings, luxeating, powerhunger, junglesettling, etc. Ok, but their lands will be spoils of war, and we can share just a bit with GoW if they help us.

[LzPrst]

Why do you seek to lead our glorious armies?

I don't necessarily see myself as the man to lead Spain's armies. I merely have thoughts on the matter that could be implemented into a possibly successful strategy.
There are of course many options and I am not 100% sure that my choice is the best, but I am a tested soldier and I have considerable knowledge in the ways of war. If it comes to war, and I am given the lead then I will distribute my responsiblities to others who are capable and consult with my officers at every turn to reach the best decision before acting.
Our strength is our diversity.

Over the next 20 Galactic Cycles or so, each of you is to prepare an offensive and defensive approach to the heathen Neo Devils to the north. Which do you prefer to dealing with them, Offensive (going out and taking there villages for our own) or Defensive (letting them come to us and banging their heads on our fortresses)?

A defensive war is easier in many ways, we will have a system of roads to move our troops by, a jungle as buffer and good for stationing defensive units in and proximity to our production centers.
However, we will not have initiative. We will only be reacting to the enemies actions and unless we smash all enemy armies very quickly we cannot make an effective offensive. We will then end up with a war of attrition, on OUR land.
I believe we have to take the war to their lands, their farms, villages and cities.

Our embassy has been opened with the barbarians, and we know they left their capitol relatively undefended – which means they probably have a rather large offensive force. How do you plan on countering it?

One word: Mobility! If they invade we will have our roads to ensure a offensive defence. If we are on the offensive and meet such an army on the field of battle then we should have the element of surprise and the ability to retreat and regroup. A strong cavalry is my solution to the problem. We will try to keep the enemy on flat ground and have our riders skrimish and destroy those weakened in battle against our swordsmen (and spearmen, we should have a lot of those with us in battle).

What will you do if the boot licking lackeys of the Neo Devils, GoW, decide to join in our holey crusade of eradication of the heathens?

This might cause a problem depending on their army's size and form. However I do doubt it will happen. The result of such a war would give the Demons massive lands to expand into and even more strength. GoW would be forever living on their good will. It is in their interest to balance us and ND against eachother.
If however they are crazy enough to attack us, then I believe it will take some time for an army to reach us. When they do we will hopefully have destroyed most of ND's troops and can deal with the GoW invasion.

What would your ultimate goals regarding the Neo Devils be? Do you seek assimilation or merely a large reduction in their ability to wage war?

I would like to see Marlow and Neu Theben burned to the ground and our soldiers placed on the fortified line of the jungle that I have presented earlier. If anyone builds a city that will extend its borders to our line of defence we will destroy it. This will be my policy if we successfully defeat our enemy. Besides that ND can colonize the rest of the continent for all I care. As long as we are stronger and can burn their cities if need be, they are irrelevant. At this stage they are not.

Declarations of war – in this situation do you fear diplomatic repercussions (there are no AI players to worry about) if you attack without a declaration? What other differences would you make as there are no AI players?

My assumptions are based on the assumed actions of the other nations. We should try to not show ourselves as untrustworthy warmongers. I leave this to the diplomats. That is all I can say.

[LzPrst]

We are assuming that, in the case of an attack, the Neu Daemons will come through the land were our two northern cities (Saragossa and Santiago) are settled. But what if they attack Madrid directly from the East? Do you think it is possible? If yes: Do you have a plan to be prepared, or react quickly enough, against this posibility? If no: Why?

The length of the march itself is discouraging for an enemy army. Simply because our capital is not near the front lines shouldnt mean that it be poorly defended. I want at least 3 spearmen + possibly some swordsmen stationed as Madrid Observatores in the mountains north of the city. Preferably in fortifications. This would ensure an early warning system as well as slow the enemy down. Our main force should then be able to follow the road (which must be completes AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!) and bolster Madrid's defence with strong units.

Señor Godking has already asked you about what is your ultimate goal concerning the Neu Daemons in case of an attack. But, if they don't attack, should we attack once we are ready?
If yes: We have lots of unsettled land. So, why conquer even more land? Or why upset the other nations appearing as the bad guys?
If no: Can we afford having a powerful and dangerous enemy to our north? Is it safe?

I believe we should attack in time. Marlow is positioned to close for my liking. The jungle was to act as a buffer between us. Marlowa makes this a problem as their culture will expand and possibly push back further our line of defence. Unacceptable!
Also, burning Neu Theben will set a powerful example as to the strength and dedication of Spain.
And no, we cannot afford a powerful opponent so close. It is not safe, they could at any time attack and if GoW joins in a coordinated attack we will lose. We must make it so that we are in time at least 50% stronger than our most powerful rival.

[pikesfan]

The question of the late Eduardì Pikesfan

I hear of many plans to attack or defend from the human portion of ND’s army. (If they send the giant cat instead, then we are goners ) But how do you generals know that your plans have taken into account the worst ND can send us? In short, how big an army do you think ND has, or will have, and what is your evidence for it?

[astrologix]

Re: The question of the late Eduardì Pikesfan

Originally posted by pikesfan
I hear of many plans to attack or defend from the human portion of ND’s army. (If they send the giant cat instead, then we are goners ) But how do you generals know that your plans have taken into account the worst ND can send us? In short, how big an army do you think ND has, or will have, and what is your evidence for it?

Señor Pikesfan,

It's a good question.

In fact, I'm not sure that ND is planning to attack us very soon. Our Military Advisor recently said that we are average with ND again. This means that ND is probably stopping the military production to focus on REX again. IIRC, they have extended the NAP until 1000 BC. Does that mean that they have less military intentions against us than we guess ? What if we are becoming a bit paranoid ?

NO MATTER, my choice will be to make a good offensive and defensive army in order to be ready for the worsth.
I wouldn't stop our military production until the Military Advisor says us that we are stronger than them.

[LzPrst]

how do you generals know that your plans have taken into account the worst ND can send us? In short, how big an army do you think ND has, or will have, and what is your evidence for it?

We are currently Strong towards ND.
If they were planning war they would have kept building swords all the while fighting Lux. It is obvious that they have not done so and thus not planning a large scale attack.
Probably seeing that Legoland is peacefully getting bigger and bigger they've realized a war against an even opponent is not really that attractive.
I dont think ND will come marching south right now, they'll be just as concerned with the possibility of GoW attacking as that of us making trouble.

To be extremely frank and earnest (in Pamplona i'm Frank and in Saragossa I'm Earnest )
I'll leave speculation to the number crunchers. I'm a soldier first of all. Give me information and I will smash the enemy to dust. Please dont request that I make assumptions for what may and may not be. There is more than enough uncertainty on the field of battle. We should send spies to the enemy and find out.
Guesses will get us nowhere.

[ThePlagueRat]

Re: The question of the late Eduardì Pikesfan

Originally posted by pikesfan
I hear of many plans to attack or defend from the human portion of ND’s army. (If they send the giant cat instead, then we are goners ) But how do you generals know that your plans have taken into account the worst ND can send us? In short, how big an army do you think ND has, or will have, and what is your evidence for it?

Interresting questions señor Eduardi. Well, neither will I speculate in how big an army ND can send us. There is no accurate evidence of this information except from what the military advisor estimates, and what the spies can tell us. This estimate is floating between average and stronger military strenght, and this is giving our plans some needed hope.

What is just as important (perhaps even more) than the current strenght estimate, is the real strenght potential . That means having more cities (and I mean productive ones) than they do, can lead to our final victory.

Furthermore, when they understand that we are not coming in peace, they should be as unprepared as possible. So if they are stationing most of their men far north, it would mean initial success for us. After this initial success, we must be able to 'out-produce' them in reinforcements. As every war goes, the opposing sides will do its uttermost to reinforce their battle groups and strike back. So if they are building more cities now, we should have to build some too.

However, we cannot wait too long to attack if these plans should be effective. So I say we just build one more settler now, and perhaps postpone the attack some turns.

[Aidun]

Comparative Summary

Don't pay any attention to any roleplay of these candidates, vote for their ideas. Here's an objective comparative summary to make it easier to choose between the three candidates.

1. Why do you seek to lead our glorious armies?

Astrologix: “First, I am a patriot. Second, since generations, the Astronicus family has in his blood the military feeling and skills.
My father, Martin Astronicus IV, currently an old man, gave me the order to follow our Despot in all His Great Purposes.
Now, it's time to Spain to know what an Astronicus man can make for His Glory.”

LzPrst: “I don't necessarily see myself as the man to lead Spain's armies. I merely have thoughts on the matter that could be implemented into a possibly successful strategy.
There are of course many options and I am not 100% sure that my choice is the best, but I am a tested soldier and I have considerable knowledge in the ways of war. If it comes to war, and I am given the lead then I will distribute my responsiblities to others who are capable and consult with my officers at every turn to reach the best decision before acting.
Our strength is our diversity."

PlagueRat: “I feel that the army of Spain would benefit from my experience as an offensive commander. I think offense is the best defense, and that Spain will benefit from tearing off it's smily mask soon.”

2. Over the next 20 Galactic Cycles or so, each of you is to prepare an offensive and defensive approach to the heathen Neo Devils to the north. Which do you prefer to dealing with them, Offensive (going out and taking there villages for our own) or Defensive (letting them come to us and banging their heads on our fortresses)?

Astrologix: Defensive on the short term. Having the ability to attack within 40 turns.
LzPrst: Offensive, defensive leaks the initiative.
PlagueRat: Offensive, eventually with a reason that is internationally accepted.


3. Our embassy has been opened with the barbarians, and we know they left their capitol relatively undefended – which means they probably have a rather large offensive force. How do you plan on countering it?

Astrologix: Defensive in any case.
LzPrst: Countering by offensive defense in case of ND approaching our cities, otherwise using an offensive strategy. On the battlefield LzPrst prefers to use horsemen.
PlagueRat: Countering by defensive strategy in case of Spain being weaker than ND, otherwise using an offensive strategy.

4. What will you do if the boot licking lackeys of the Neo Devils, GoW, decide to join in our holey crusade of eradication of the heathens?

Astrologix: discourages an alliance with GoW because of the threat of being betrayed.
LzPrst: neutral: GoW won’t attack ND because it will reduce them to a vassal state, GoW can’t effectively attack us due to the large distance between the lands.
PlagueRat: encourages an alliance with GoW because of the extra strenth of both armies and to take away the option for ND to use mercenaries.

5. What would your ultimate goals regarding the Neo Devils be? Do you seek assimilation or merely a large reduction in their ability to wage war?

Astrologix: Reduce ND in power in order to change it into a vassal state and use it as a buffer to GoW.
LzPrst: Only burn down Marlow and Neu Theben and make sure ND is irrelevant in power to Spain.
PlagueRat: No comment . Comment of the journalist: “May I conclude this means the total demolition of ND?”

6. Declarations of war – \in this situation do you fear diplomatic repercussions (there are no AI players to worry about) if you attack without a declaration? What other differences would you make as there are no AI players?

Astrologix: Prefers declaring war officially rather than sneak attack.
LzPrst: Prefers no sneak attacking, but leaves it up to the diplomats.
PlagueRat: Prefers declaring war officially rather than sneak attack and wants to get the war internationally accepted by using a reason to attack as mentioned at question 2.

7. We are assuming that, in the case of an attack, the Neu Daemons will come through the land were our two northern cities (Saragossa and Santiago) are settled. But what if they attack Madrid directly from the East? Do you think it is possible? If yes: Do you have a plan to be prepared, or react quickly enough, against this posibility? If no: Why?

Astrologix: Considers it unlikely but possible. Plan: either move part of the offensive forces to Madrid and attack the attackers so that they can’t reach the mountains and hills.
or attacking Neu Theben with the attack force and keeping a strong defensive force in Madrit to defend Madrid.
LzPrst: Considers it unlikely but possible. Plan: have 3 spearmen and additional swordsmen if possible in mountains surrounding Madrid to watch out for an assault. In case of an attack LzPrst wants to move the main force to Madrid to defend it with these additional units.
PlagueRat: Considers it unlikely but possible. Plan: either move part of the offensive forces to Madrid and attack the attackers so that they can’t reach the mountains and hills.
or attacking Neu Theben with the attack force and keeping a strong defensive force in Madrit to defend Madrid. PlagueRat only want’s to use this option if no other option si possible. He rather solves the problem by diplomacy than using this option.


8. Señor Godking has already asked you about what is your ultimate goal concerning the Neu Daemons in case of an attack. But, if they don't attack, should we attack once we are ready?
If yes: We have lots of unsettled land. So, why conquer even more land? Or why upset the other nations appearing as the bad guys?
If no: Can we afford having a powerful and dangerous enemy to our north? Is it safe?

Astrologix: Wants to expand rather than to attack and have both a strong defensive and offensive force te be able to attack at any time if needed.
LzPrst: Wants to “attack in time” under any circumstance. “We cannot afford a powerful opponent so close.” LzPrst wants to be prepared for an coordinated combined attack of both ND and GoW by having an army that is at least 50% stronger than that of our strongest rival.
PlagueRat: If this situation occurs PlagueRat wants to wait and delay the attack in order that we build an even stronger military. After this little delay he wants to attack to weaken ND because he thinks a powerful opponent shall in time attack us. PlagueRat doesn’t want to attack without an internationally accepted ‘reason’

9. I hear of many plans to attack or defend from the human portion of ND’s army. (If they send the giant cat instead, then we are goners ) But how do you generals know that your plans have taken into account the worst ND can send us? In short, how big an army do you think ND has, or will have, and what is your evidence for it?

Astrologix: Is unsure about the plans of ND to attack us. His general plan is to have a strong defensive and offensive military “in order to be ready for the worst”.
LzPrst: Is sure that ND is not planning to attack us very soon because they haven’t kept on building swordsmen in order to create multiple attack forces or strengthen their attack force. He thinks guessing about the strength of ND’s military is useless because we never know for sure. He suggests using spies to get an idea of the strength of ND’s military.
PlagueRat: Doesn’t want to speculate either and only wants to base his plans on information given by the in game military advisor and information of spies. PlagueRat considers production capacity (the amount of cities and their production rates) more important than the actual strength of the army. Having a higher production capacity than our rivals is what he sees as the real path to victory. PlagueRat thinks that a large army means only a first initial succes in a war that takes much longer than this first battle, after this battle the production speed of reinforcements will determine which country is going to win. He wants though to build but just one settler now and perhaps postpone the attack some turns.

[ThePlagueRat]

Comment of the journalist: “May I conclude this means the total demolition of ND?”

No, not at all. Ehrm, since we are such nice guys, we will burn and raze all the way until they are begging us to stop. Then we demand all their gold and techs, and make them a little kitten again. First, we need to take Neu Theben and Marlowa, then we must reevaluate the situation and also use diplomatic means if we want to 'vassalize' them...