Alliance with Lux Invicta

[DAVOUT]

Too late ...

In the same turn, Lux lost probably a city, whereas ND and GoW had one more. Has the war started ?

Without contact with Lux in the game, which would make possible soon a tech deal, we should delayed the negociation of any treaty until the picture is clear.

[jdjdjd]

Alliance Between The Ottomans (Lux Invicta) and The Spanish (Roleplay)

How about....
********

Trip, Administrator Lux Invicta and Supreme Leader of the Ottomans; and Togas, Supreme Leader of the Spanish (Roleplay) do hereby agree to the following, which is binding upon the Ottomans (Lux Invicta) and the Spanish (Roleplay) Civilizations in the World (PTW Demo Game). Henceforth: any reference to the Ottomans infers Lux Invicta and reference to Spain or España infers Roleplay.

Preamble:

The Ottomans and The People of Spain do hereby commit in writing to their immense trust and respect for each other. Their friendship knows no bounds, and is unrivaled in the world. May the Great Spirits of the World, bless and preserve the Great People of these two Great Civilizations. Furthermore, Mano a Mano, the Great Leaders, Trip and Togas, do set an example to all their people, and hail each other as loyal and supportive friends by signing this Alliance.

I. This document will expire in 20 game turns from its effective time. This needs to be finalized at time of signing

II. The Ottomans and the Spanish do hereby agree to never declare war on or invade the other in a hostile manner.

III. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree to never ally, plot, conspire, assist, etc., with other Civilizations against the other in a hostile manner.

IV. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that any defensive war initiated by another aggressive civilization is to trigger the Alliance, and the non-warring Ally agrees to assist the warring Ally, so long as the war would not cause undue, unnecessary and irreversible harm to the non-warring Ally.

V. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that any aggressive war started by one of the them is not a trigger to the Alliance; unless the Allies agree beforehand to the aggressive war. Such approval must be sought by the Invading Ally at least 5 turns prior to a declaration of war.

VI. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that each Ally in this Alliance is entitled to keep any Spoils of War it may control.

VII. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that neither Ally may enter into an Alliance with another civilization without prior approval by the non-allying Ally.

VIII. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree not to invade an ally of one of the Allies to this Alliance, who met the approval in VII. above.

XI. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that any violation of this agreement by either Ally will null and void the Alliance.

This is the Word of the Ottomans and Spanish and it is their Law. Long live the Great Civilizations of the Ottomans and Spanish and let no man tear them asunder.


******

Comments and suggestions are always welcome. I will fix any grammar, spelling, etc. prior to PM to Trip.

[DAVOUT]

Dont we offer some hostages as a guarantee ? I have a list ...

[Thrumble]

Why are we agreeing to an Alliance with Lux? Most of our diplomatic problems have had them at the root and they seem to be the weakest of the Four Corner Civilizations (kinda catchy isn't it?).

I see no great hostile threat that should force us to sign an alliance as we currently seem to be doing fine at holding GoW in check and spinning ND from our heartland.

[DAVOUT]

jdjdjd,

Article 7 requires that we read the treaty if we are to give prior approval; practically it means that we are party at the treaty. Without reading the treaty I would never give my approval.

[jdjdjd]

Thats why I put it like that DAVOUT. It says we must give prior approval, and we could say we will not give prior approval unless we see the Treaty. Then if they say, no we do not want to show you the treaty, then we say no to their alliance. If they enter it anyway, they have violated the treaty and cancel our Alliance with them.

Thrumble, we are agreeing to an alliance because it is the will of Lord Togas. He explains himself above and further in the Diplomacy thread.

[Togas]

Looks good, jd.

Edits in bold.

I. This document will expire in 20 game turns from its effective time if it is not reaffirmed for another 20 turns by both nations.

IV. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that any defensive war initiated by another aggressive civilization is to trigger the Alliance, and the non-warring Ally agrees to assist the warring Ally in their defense in a reasonable and immediate mannor.

Strike Art VII entirely.

VIII. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree not to invade an ally of one of the Allies to this Alliance.

Add in a clause that states that we will both keep this alliance a secret for the duration of the alliance so as to not frighten our neighbors and convince them to ally against us.


As to why we're signing this agreement, why not? This greatly reduces the chances that Lux will be hostile towards us, does not drag us into war unless Lux is surprised and even if they are surprised, we only have to act in a reasonable fashion ... to send what free troops we have to harass the nations that will benefit from Lux's demise.

Frankly, we should seek agreements with ND and GoW as well. We will only prosper from a long period of early peace, as our nation's traits are geared towards more peaceful victories. Furthermore, when war happens, we want to have some friends and some assurances that we the added power to survive it.

So long as I am despot, Spain will be an active and aggressive diplomatic nation forging relationships with any and all nations of the world. We will strive to control the world around us by our agrements and by manipulating the politics of the region.

--Togas

[jdjdjd]

Revised

Here are the revisions requested.

*****

Trip, Administrator Lux Invicta and Supreme Leader of the Ottomans; and Togas, Supreme Leader of the Spanish (Roleplay) do hereby agree to the following, which is binding upon the Ottomans (Lux Invicta) and the Spanish (Roleplay) Civilizations in the World (PTW Demo Game). Henceforth: any reference to the Ottomans infers Lux Invicta and reference to Spain or España infers Roleplay.

Preamble:

The Ottomans and The People of Spain do hereby commit in writing to their immense trust and respect for each other. Their friendship knows no bounds, and is unrivaled in the world. May the Great Spirits of the World, bless and preserve the Great People of these two Great Civilizations. Furthermore, Mano a Mano, the Great Leaders, Trip and Togas, do set an example to all their people, and hail each other as loyal and supportive friends by signing this Alliance.

I. This document will expire in 20 game turns from its effective time if it is not reaffirmed for another 20 turns by both nations.

II. The Ottomans and the Spanish do hereby agree to never declare war on or invade the other in a hostile manner.

III. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree to never ally, plot, conspire, assist, etc., with other Civilizations against the other in a hostile manner.

IV. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that any defensive war initiated by another aggressive civilization is to trigger the Alliance, and the non-warring Ally agrees to assist the warring Ally in their defense in a reasonable and immediate manner.

V. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that any aggressive war started by one of the them is not a trigger to the Alliance; unless the Allies agree beforehand to the aggressive war. Such approval must be sought by the Invading Ally at least 5 turns prior to a declaration of war.

VI. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that each Ally in this Alliance is entitled to keep any Spoils of War it may control.

VII. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree not to invade an ally of one of the Allies to this Alliance.

VIII. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that any violation of this agreement by either Ally will null and void the Alliance.

XI. The Ottomans and the Spanish agree that this Alliance will remain a secret from the other civilizations so as to not frighten then and convince them to ally against us.

This is the Word of the Ottomans and Spanish and it is their Law. Long live the Great Civilizations of the Ottomans and Spanish and let no man tear them asunder.


******

Again, any suggestions or comments - or in the alternative, the approval of Our Supreme Leader.

P.S. What is this "while I am despot"? That implies there is a time when you will not be despot - certainly the spirits would never let that happen.

[E_T]

Senor jdjdjd,

As there are always Young Hot Heads who feel that our Lord Togas might not be guiding our Great Nation in the Proper Mannor, there is always the Danger of them Disposing his Rule. We all hope that that will never happen, but the possibility IS still there.

As for the Alliance Agreement, I support it. The Document is a masterpiece, Senor jdjdjd. Especially with Lord Togas's additions.

Letus Eta Tamali

[DAVOUT]

Re: Revised

Originally posted by jdjdjd
Here are the revisions requested.

*****


P.S. What is this "while I am despot"? That implies there is a time when you will not be despot - .

jdjdjd, it did not occur to you that Togas would like to start roleplaying at last.

[Togas]

Re: Re: Revised

Originally posted by DAVOUT
jdjdjd, it did not occur to you that Togas would like to start roleplaying at last.

May the reign of my family over Spain last until the end of times ... or until you guys force me to switch to a lousey democracy.

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

The Togas family have been enlightened and benevolent in their ruling of Spain throughout the centuries, and will be for many, many more.

Anyone silly enough to plan a coup against the Togas line is forewarned that they should also plan to eliminate every last Dejon as well, lest they wish us to seek revenge on our Lord's behalf.

[Aidun]

Please, señor Jdjdjd, señor Tamali and señor Torquemada, let us enjoy the peace of the Age of Stability as this time perhaps shall be remembered. There is no need to bother ourselves with thoughts about evil future scenario's.

Aidun Cian

[ruby_maser]

The agreement looks good... the "Mano a Mano" line is perhaps one flourish too many

However, I would like to state for the record that I think a treaty like this is a mistake. Lux is the weakest nation in the game per the score; the predators see them limping right now. I think Lux is gonna be on our necks soon enough to assist them in aggression against neighbors of ours that will probably be around longer than Lux will.

Lux will be able to show this off as proof of any waffling on the issue or backing out of backing them up we may do. They are gonna frame this and show it to anyone we don't declare war in defense of them. I think military assistance should be removed completely from the pact.

[jdjdjd]

r_m I did overplay it - one person had suggested we overplay it to look like guys just goofing around and not true gamers.

I too was opposed to any such entanglements, but it is to be. I wrote with it in mind that I would try to keep us as free from intertwinement as much as possible and leave us a way out if possible.