10AD (28) Orders, Results, Discussion

[Togas]

We can attack with the cat, 7 Inf, and 3 horses and virtually wipe this ND stack out! ND will get the save and see their stack wiped out and have no idea how many units we used in the fight, how many we lost, or how strong we currently are. Moving this stack into the open was a very foolish move and we need to capitalize on it and destroy them!

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

Ideas discussed with GS:

-They like the Zara attack option, and we thought it best to first bombard with the Cat, then attack with a couple of MedInfs - if we're doing well, keep going (until 1 ND unit left), otherwise consider options

-Nathan came up with a "ballsy" offensive move - move the MedInfs, Vet Pikes, and Cats from Pamplona to W of Leon. ND would have 3 options: Attack Zaragoza; Attack the stack; or Attack Pamplona. They wouldn't know where the stack came from (Zara, Pamp), so they wouldn't know which city to hit. Still, we would have 5-7 units in Pamp, so it wouldn't necessarily fall if they guessed right. The hypothetical Leon stack (with vet Pikes and Cats) has about the same defense odds as our mostly Reg Pikes in Zaragoza. This move would take guts.

-Resource denial: Maybe pillage Vigo Iron and send a Horse to pillage road N of Leon - that would keep Vigo and Leon from producing Pikes for awhile. Not sure if this is worth the Horse. We're supposed to get Chivalry in 2 or 3 turns.

-They requested that we move our new galley to 36 of New Madrid this turn to ensure their galley paths are not blocked. I'll edit the above orders after posting this.

-We are still Average compared to ND and GoW (Their reserve forces are still being built, I gather.)

[Togas]

Results

GS gives us 43g, Incense, Furs, Iron.

ND has Engineering

We are AVE mil to ND and GoW.

We give New Madrid, Monarchy, WM, Ivory, and 79g to GS.

military:
THE GLORIOUS ATTACK AGAINST THE MOORISH INVADERS! OUR FIRST GREAT BATTLE!
Our great Infantry in Zaragoza attack the Moorish invaders. We lose 1 inf division, we kill 2 pike and 3 infantry divisions of the Moors! One of our Infantry is promoted to elite. All are safe within the walls of Zaragoza. It is a great day for General Dejon's forces.

The Riders of the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) all move to Zaragoza and fortify to help protect this holy city!

Pikes of the Iron Cross PILLAGE the Iron Road near Vigo to keep the Moors from stealing our iron.

Red Zealots (pikes) move W onto Gems.
GuObs N
Christ's Pilgrims N, W, W (towards Salamanca)
Republican Volunteers (spear) SE

Isabella NE, N
Santa Maria NW, NW, N
Pinta NW, NW, NW
Nina N, NE, E
El Nino E

workers:
Winter's Serf S, SE
Visigoth Slaves ROAD
Aidun serfs MINE
Dejon Slaves S
Astro S
Kings & Barcelona ROAD
Castor & Pollox N, NE


cities:
Pamplona finishes Inf, starts on Pike.
Zaragoza finises Inf, starts on Horseman. WF to taxman to keep us from working jungle.
Salamanca finishes walls, starts on Pike.

Images posted here

--Togas

[BigFree]

Session Start: Sat Jul 26 22:15:59 2003
Session Ident: #MilOps
[22:15] * Now talking in #MilOps
[22:16] BigFree- What the hell is "Bismarck"
[22:16] BigFree- 12:4)1
[22:17] Togas- excuse me for a moment while I catchup
[22:19] dejon- Togas is reading the "Coles notes" versions of some of our discussion topics, I expect he'll want to revisit some
[22:19] Togas- OK, my current opinion is that we should strike the ND stack
[22:20] Togas- I'm pondering the idea of moving an offensive stack out just yet
[22:20] Togas- it WILL have to be done at some point, just not sure when.
[22:20] * Trip[civ] (~trip@12-211-215-245.client.attbi.com) Quit (Ping timeout)
[22:20] asleepath- good riddance
[22:20] asleepath- :0
[22:20] * dejon sets mode: +ooo nbarclay BigFree Togas
[22:21] dejon- We'll get Chiv in 2-3 turns - that may be a good point (even if we only have 3 newly upgraded Knights)
[22:22] nbarclay- Will you be able to save up the money in time?
[22:22] Togas- 3 knights is like adding 3 pikes that can fight like Inf AND move twice as far. They will be quite a blessing for Zaragoza.
[22:22] dejon- re: $ - at least for two
[22:23] Togas- it's 80g each, yes?
[22:23] nbarclay- Yes.
[22:23] dejon- assuming we don't rush anything else
[22:23] nbarclay- It may be worth GS considering helping finance the upgrades, but no promises.
[22:23] Togas- understood
[22:24] nbarclay- By the way, knights also have the advantage that Ansars can't retreat from them.
[22:24] Togas- ND is in their golden age. We are going to soon see some serious army sizes. But for now our mil strengths are still equal so we still have time.
[22:25] BigFree- Leon is still guarded by only Ansars
[22:25] Togas- yes
[22:25] nbarclay- GS outproduces ND even with their GA, so ND won't be the only ones you see serious army sizes from.
[22:25] Togas-
[22:25] BigFree- we need to get there on the offencesive before they get pikes there
[22:25] * Trip[civ] (~trip@12-211-215-245.client.attbi.com) has joined #MilOps
[22:25] dejon- we're down to 5th in goods an prod, btw
[22:25] * Trip[civ] is now known as Trip
[22:26] Togas- we're without 5 cities, that's bound to happen.
[22:26] Togas- we'll look worse w/o Madrid.
[22:26] dejon- The road pillage option would cut ND defenders off from easy access to Leon, and prevent them building Pikes there.
[22:27] Togas- at the cost of a horseman.
[22:27] dejon- Since we can only afford two Knights of our own...
[22:27] nbarclay- And a third a turn or two later.
[22:27] nbarclay- Right?
[22:27] dejon- I'm not convinced myself - just repeating the points
[22:27] dejon- yes
[22:27] Togas- Just gives the Ansars an easier chance at a GL
[22:28] nbarclay- Ouch! And ND has an elite Ansar just waiting to pounce, right?
[22:28] * Togas notices that Leon is rioting .... good for them.
[22:28] Trip- haha
[22:28] Togas- They do have at least 1 elite that we've seen so far.
[22:29] dejon- If we send a Leon stack and they attack it with their elite, we can then counter attack Leon and the elite unit
[22:29] Togas- Leon stack?
[22:29] dejon- though any Gl they produced would prob have moved back to their fort
[22:30] dejon- hypothetical - did you read my last post?
[22:30] Togas- explain to me what units would make up this stack
[22:30] nbarclay- If we send a Leon stack, ND moves its ansars out of Leon and either abandons (destroys) the city or lets you have it and plans to retake it later.
[22:30] nbarclay- (If RP sends)
[22:31] Togas- ND gets a free shot at the whole stack before retreating
[22:31] Togas- They can hit and run against us forever until we get knights.
[22:31] Togas- the only decent odds we get is when they attack us in our cities.
[22:31] dejon- 7 Cats , 6 or 7 MedInfs, 5 Vet Pikes
[22:32] Togas- the thing that stack would do is soak up Ansar attacks.
[22:32] nbarclay- With only five vet pikes, it's probably not worth it. Too many Ansars would be able to attack something other than pikes.
[22:32] Togas- worse, they could hit Pamplona
[22:32] dejon- Pamplona would have 6 pikes and 1-2 MedInf left
[22:33] asleepath- If they did happen to abandon Leon, the army would be on a road and can move to Z
[22:33] asleepath- or elsewhere if required
[22:33] dejon- nathan - yes, but any less mean Pamp is underdefended
[22:33] BigFree- I think it would be a samrt move to make a counter now against Leon
[22:33] Togas- I am not convinced that we have the strength
[22:34] dejon- neither am I - that's why its "ballsy"
[22:34] Togas- I prefer to lure them into attacking one of our heavily fortified cities.
[22:34] nbarclay- Agreed that Pamplona would be underdefended, which means the whole Leon operation is probably not a good idea at this time, unless perhaps the goal is to sacrifice units to keep Zaragoza from being hit.
[22:35] nbarclay- Does anyone know what the odds are for an ansar attacking a MedInf in a size 7 city with walls?
[22:35] Togas- I believe that if we attack the ND stack near Zaragoza, they will not have the strength to attack Z next turn.
[22:35] dejon- I think we minimize the Zara attack by trimming the stack outside it now, and by sending the horses
[22:35] dejon- They can still attack with just Ansars, but that won't be enough to take it
[22:35] dejon- But they'll trim us, just as we'll have trimmed them
[22:36] nbarclay- How about if you go ahead and take the cat shot and a couple attacks at the stack outside Z and see how that goes?
[22:36] nbarclay- We'll have more information about the overall status after the situation with that stack is resolved.
[22:37] BigFree- agreed
[22:37] asleepath- my fear is that if we wait for them to attack, then we might be waiting a while, they might build a large ansar blitzing army, and meanwhile GoW inches closer with their 14 riders
[22:37] BigFree- my thoughts too
[22:37] BigFree- plus they reinforce with pikes
[22:37] asleepath- and if we wait 3 turns to hit leon, their pikes will be there, now its just ansars for the most part
[22:37] BigFree- now they only have a 2 defender
[22:37] * asleepath where have you been all my life BigFree
[22:37] asleepath- :0
[22:37] BigFree- 12:4)1
[22:37] asleepath-
[22:38] Togas- We take out that stack. They get the save, see them wiped out, and still see no RP units in play, their paranoia will keep them guessing.
[22:38] Togas- All they'll know is that Zaragoza definately has troops in it.
[22:38] asleepath- well, they can have goW spy
[22:38] BigFree- yep
[22:38] dejon- GoW plays after them
[22:38] BigFree- most like they do
[22:38] dejon- don't they
[22:38] BigFree- yes
[22:38] BigFree- they get outdated infor
[22:39] asleepath- yes, they play after, but we can only get horses there in one turn
[22:39] Togas- if not for WW, we would have just declared war on GoW and kept their spying out of it
[22:39] asleepath- ansars can scout and get back without being noticed
[22:39] nbarclay- But (just to pretend I'm paranoid), if GoW did spy, they would know what's in Zaragoza that could have attacked them.
[22:39] BigFree- true
[22:40] BigFree- if they knew, they would be dumb to move where they did
[22:40] Togas- agreed
[22:40] dejon- yes, that would be old info at this point
[22:40] BigFree- no, Zara troops have been there for a while
[22:40] nbarclay- But GoW's spy report would have come after they made their "dumb" move.
[22:40] asleepath- -like I said the most you could add is a single pike or horses at this poit
[22:40] BigFree- Pamplona's troops are new info
[22:41] asleepath- is it dumb?
[22:41] nbarclay- I really doubt that they're wasting gold on spying, though.
[22:41] Togas- I think they're still upgrading
[22:41] BigFree- alseep: It's dumb if we wipe thoose troops out with little effort
[22:41] asleepath- maybe they want to get rid of the river bonus, maybe they want us to waste units on theirs, softening up for the ansars
[22:42] asleepath- I can't honestlythink they did this without reason (insert joke about a certain civ we went to war with here)
[22:42] BigFree- Togas, dejon; let's find out how we do against that stack.
[22:42] nbarclay- If I were ND, I would expect Zaragoza to have a much higher ratio of defensive units to offensive units than it does.
[22:42] BigFree- asleep, maybe they think we will never attack and have too many troops in our South
[22:43] BigFree- we did gift cities away
[22:43] asleepath- maybe so, that certainly makes since on both of those parts
[22:43] BigFree- that is throwing them off
[22:43] asleepath- probably, this has been quite the unconventional war so far :0
[22:43] nbarclay- They're probably expecting that RP can hit their pikes and a couple MedInfs, but I doubt that they're expecting RP to have seven MedInfs in the city even if they are mostly regulars.
[22:43] BigFree- ND and GoW may be thinking that we had many troops set up to protect our East coast from GS
[22:44] asleepath- and would you put it past GoW to take the cash and fake screenshots?
[22:44] BigFree- haha
[22:44] dejon- IF they know the Z contents, then they know that we haven't enough Pikes there - so putting a stack there for our MedInf to attack is baiting us to weaken our MedInf defenders.
[22:44] BigFree- no ****
[22:44] nbarclay- Basically, what they've done is set up a no-win situation for you.
[22:45] nbarclay- If you attack, it weakens Zaragoza's defenses.
[22:45] BigFree- dejon: if we can take a stack of 6 units, with only two units lost, we won that battle big time.
[22:45] nbarclay- If you don't attack, they have extra units with an attack value of 4 to hit you with.
[22:45] dejon- Oh I agree we should attack
[22:45] nbarclay- Either way, their moving the stack next to Zaragoza makes it harder to hold the city.
[22:45] BigFree- Ok
[22:45] BigFree- LETS ATTACK
[22:45] nbarclay- But I think attacking their stack is the better of the less-than-ideal options available.
[22:46] asleepath- agree
[22:46] dejon- The thing they don't know is that we'll be able to send 3 horses to Zara - which may helps the numbers game
[22:46] asleepath- exactly what I was thinking
[22:46] Togas- 4 save it up, ready to g.
[22:46] BigFree- Catapult away!
[22:47] dejon- I'm loaded and ready
[22:47] nbarclay- Who's playing the turn?
[22:47] BigFree- me too
[22:47] Togas- Renamed the Horsemen to the Trinity
[22:48] Togas- We have Riders of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
[22:48] BigFree- Togas will play
[22:48] Togas- all three will first be moved to Zaragoza....
[22:48] Togas- yes?
[22:48] BigFree- but we will play along
[22:48] dejon- Yes
[22:48] nbarclay- No, please.
[22:48] dejon- why?
[22:48] BigFree- wait for results
[22:48] nbarclay- There is no need to move them before they're ready to attack, right?
[22:48] BigFree- exactly
[22:49] Togas- Ok, will keep them in reserve.
[22:49] nbarclay- And I was thinking the MedInfs would be the ones to launch the attack on ND's stack by Zaragoza.
[22:49] dejon- If we're going to attack with our MedInf, we want the reinforcements. They're not needed in Pamp.
[22:49] BigFree- dejon, attacking with Horsemen against Pikes is not fun
[22:49] Togas- Our 7 Inf attack first
[22:49] BigFree- MI's are our best bet
[22:49] Togas- we have 6 targets
[22:49] nbarclay- If the results outside Zaragoza are a disaster, moving horsemen in could just be throwing away potential knights.
[22:50] BigFree- yep
[22:50] Togas- that's fine, step 1 will be cat, step 2 inf
[22:50] dejon- I'm not suggesting the horses attack, BF, they're just defense reinforcements (Ansar fodder)
[22:50] Togas- then we'll pause to reconsider.
[22:50] BigFree- ok dejon
[22:50] nye- munches an m&m
[22:50] BigFree- LOL
[22:50] nbarclay- Doesn't "ansar fodder" imply they die?
[22:50] * nye munches an m&m
[22:51] nye- must feed mars
[22:51] Togas- Artilary Bombardment fails
[22:51] dejon- sorry, you'd like optimism?
[22:51] dejon-
[22:51] asleepath- these are dark days
[22:51] BigFree- Togas
[22:51] asleepath- balls
[22:51] BigFree- only wake one unit at a time
[22:51] Togas- I know
[22:51] BigFree- keep all fortified
[22:51] BigFree- Ok
[22:51] BigFree- 12:4)1
[22:51] BigFree- just checking
[22:52] Togas- 4 The Fist of God dies.
[22:52] Togas- does 0 damage
[22:52] BigFree- 12:4(1
[22:52] Togas- perhaps someone else should play the save
[22:52] dejon-
[22:52] nbarclay-
[22:52] asleepath- at least the pike wasn't promoted, was he?
[22:52] dejon- I don't see a "Fist of God" - was that the new one?
[22:52] Togas- not yet
[22:52] Togas- he was new
[22:52] dejon- ok
[22:52] asleepath- so another loss and the pike will be a vet or an elite?
[22:53] dejon- newbie deaths are nothing new
[22:53] Togas- 4 knights of st john defeat the vile pikeman scum!
[22:53] BigFree- yes
[22:53] Togas- and get promoted to elite
[22:53] nye- yay!
[22:53] BigFree- yahoo
[22:53] asleepath-
[22:53] nbarclay- How much damage did they take?
[22:53] dejon-
[22:53] BigFree- down to two pips
[22:53] nbarclay- Great news their winning, of course.!
[22:54] nye- idea
[22:54] Togas- 4 God's Wrath defeat the vile Pikeman scum! but have only 1 hp left
[22:54] nye- use one horse to probe the second pike
[22:54] nye- too late
[22:54] nbarclay- Too late now.
[22:54] nye-
[22:54] asleepath- ")
[22:54] asleepath-
[22:54] Trip- good god
[22:54] Trip- too many faces :P
[22:54] dejon- Can't stop Togas on a roll
[22:54] BigFree- ah shat up
[22:54] asleepath- and the route is on
[22:55] Togas- 4 The Order of the Sacred Name defeats the Moorish Infantry, taking only 1 damage!
[22:55] nye- yay!
[22:55] BigFree- :0
[22:55] nbarclay- Great!
[22:55] dejon- ooh, good, a 3/4 medinf for defense
[22:55] BigFree- nice
[22:56] Togas- 4 The Order of the Blood of Christ defeats the Moorish Infantry, also taking only 1 damage!
[22:56] Trip- wow
[22:56] BigFree- cool
[22:56] dejon- another good one
[22:56] asleepath- so how many left?
[22:56] nye- yay!
[22:56] BigFree- 2
[22:56] Trip- 2 pikes killed, 2 infs
[22:56] nbarclay- Fantastic!
[22:56] BigFree- we lost one unit so far
[22:56] Togas- 4 the Order of the Holy Spirit defeats the pathetic Moorish Infantry, also also taking only 1 damage!
[22:56] dejon- what should we expect - these are dejon-family trained units at the oldest barracks in Spain!
[22:56] BigFree- HAHA
[22:56] nye- woohoo!
[22:57] Togas- there is only 1 enemy unit left
[22:57] Togas- he is a regular
[22:57] asleepath- attack the last and leave someone open?
[22:57] Togas- full 3 HP
[22:57] dejon- don't kill him!
[22:57] asleepath- we could send the horse up and hope to take a hp or two off and retreat, I suppose
[22:57] nye- use the last mi to fort all
[22:57] dejon- we don't want to leave a unit in the open - better to defend in city
[22:57] BigFree- we hae two MI's left to attack with
[22:57] Togas- shall I sent one of the Horses of the Trinity?
[22:57] nye- and the one who wins, dies
[22:57] asleepath- maybe he can run away and tell his generals about the disaster of Zaragosa
[22:57] Trip- haha
[22:58] Togas- yes, we have 2 Inf left
[22:58] Trip- Horses of the Trinity
[22:58] nye- anything that goes out there, dies
[22:58] dejon- We needn't fear the reg pike
[22:58] BigFree- true
[22:58] dejon- leave him
[22:58] nbarclay- Are the horses regular or vet?
[22:58] Togas- reg inf
[22:58] nbarclay- Or some of each?
[22:58] Togas- horses are vets
[22:58] nye- you have won a victory.
[22:58] Togas- all 3 are vets
[22:59] nye- that will give nd pause
[22:59] nbarclay- What, exactly, is left to defend Zaragoza (including hit point counts)?
[22:59] BigFree- RP-5 ND-1
[22:59] dejon- we won't be able to counter attack the ansars that attack Zara anyways, so having that pike there won't matter
[22:59] Togas- we have killed 5 Moorish invaders, losing only 1 infantry division
[22:59] * Togas writes turnnotes...
[22:59] BigFree- We have 3 reg Pikes and one Vet Pike
[23:00] BigFree- ^ MI's
[23:00] dejon- and 6 MI, 3 at 3/4, 1 at 4/4, 1 at 2/4, 1 at 1/4
[23:00] BigFree- *6
[23:01] BigFree- One at 2/5
[23:01] dejon- sorry, yes 2/5, not 2/4
[23:01] Togas- send in the horses?
[23:01] BigFree- yes
[23:01] Trip- cavalry pursuit
[23:01] BigFree- I think so
[23:01] dejon- I think so - GS concurs?
[23:01] nye- noooo
[23:02] asleepath- yeah, lets hold that thought for a minute
[23:02] nye- that is a knight
[23:02] Togas- Shall I station the Riders of the Trinity in Zaragoza.
[23:02] nye- oh
[23:02] nbarclay- Verifying, 1 vet pike, 3 reg pikes, 1 4/4 MedInf, 3 3/4 MedInf, 1 2/5 MedInf, and one 1/4 MedInf?
[23:02] BigFree- yes
[23:02] Togas- Zaragoza *is* the center of the Church in Spain, a holy city.
[23:02] asleepath- how many ansars can they possibly attackwith next turn? + left over infantry, can that defeat all of Z? I don't think so
[23:02] dejon- The horses would just go to Z to Fort, and they can upgrade to knights there too
[23:02] nye- the horse could result in it holding
[23:02] asleepath- I like that move
[23:03] BigFree- or they can be available to do some recon from there
[23:03] BigFree- if we really need to
[23:03] nye- something that would be good to know at this point...
[23:03] nbarclay- So ten units in Zaragoza, eight that would defend before horsemen and two that would defend after.
[23:04] dejon- I figure ND has 7-8 healthy Ansars in the area (most likely in Leon)
[23:04] nye- can the worker near vigo move 2 and see if there are ansars at vigo 2 2 1
[23:04] nye- it should be a road, so you still have two-thirds mp
[23:04] nbarclay- If it comes down to all you having left being horsemen or injured units, ND might very well attack with a wounded Ansar or two trying to finish off the city.
[23:05] Togas- 4 Winter's Serf moves 2, sees no Ansars in the southern mtns near Portugal.
[23:05] nye- excellent
[23:05] asleepath- and since each can possibly attack Z 2x, correct.....
[23:05] nye- no they can;t, they are not tanks
[23:05] Togas- I think they still have 1 attack.
[23:05] Trip- Ansars don't have blitz
[23:05] asleepath- oh, I thought they did.
[23:05] nye- ;0
[23:05] Trip- Panzers do though
[23:06] nbarclay- Not even cavalry have blitz.
[23:06] asleepath- duh
[23:06] asleepath- huh, not as good a unit as I thought
[23:06] BigFree- Ok, then 3 horses to Zara
[23:07] nbarclay- Probably a good move. They might even get a shot at Ansars who attack the city and fail.
[23:07] nbarclay- (Keep in mind that a horseman's attack is as high as an Ansar's defense. )
[23:07] asleepath- FYI BF and Togas, ND doesn't have engineering
[23:08] BigFree- nice
[23:08] BigFree- very good info
[23:08] dejon- Send the cavalry to Zara, Togas
[23:08] BigFree- wait
[23:08] dejon- now what?
[23:08] BigFree- ND could have it now
[23:08] dejon- no
[23:08] BigFree- they play after GS
[23:08] dejon- I checked
[23:08] BigFree- Ok
[23:08] dejon- Offer peace and check the tech list

[BigFree]

[23:08] Togas- 4 The Riders of the Trinity have gone to protect the Holy City of Zaragoza.
[23:09] nbarclay- It's still theoretically possible that they could complete a deal for Engineering in their next turn, or finish researching it themselves.
[23:09] Togas- 4 ND has Engineering
[23:09] dejon- but they could have it next turn, if they got it from GoW or Vox this turn (since both play after ND)
[23:09] Togas- It does not show when we offer peace.
[23:10] dejon- huh?
[23:10] BigFree- Togas, do the 'fotify all' thing on troops in Zara using the horsemen as the active unit.
[23:10] Togas- BF, explain what you mean
[23:10] BigFree- Ok
[23:10] BigFree- youmoved the horses there right?
[23:10] dejon- oops, you're right - I don't know where my head was
[23:11] Togas- of course
[23:11] BigFree- leave one activated, then right click and choose "fortify all"
[23:11] Togas- I have the Horsemen of The Father active
[23:11] Togas- will do
[23:11] BigFree- good
[23:11] nbarclay- I think two units have to be unfortified for "fortify all" to be available.
[23:12] Togas- done
[23:12] nbarclay- But if one is active and "fortify all" is not available, it means the others all have "fortify" instructions.
[23:13] BigFree- "fotify all" was avaialbe to me
[23:13] nye- because none of the attacking mi have the fortify command, till you fortify all
[23:13] nbarclay- Right. As long as a "fortify all" hadn't already been done, the option would be available.
[23:14] nye- it may make a difference, i will be testing to see if what soren said so long ago is still true
[23:14] Togas- anyhow, any other changes to the posted orders?
[23:14] Togas- any suggestions? questions?
[23:14] BigFree- 12 RP is still 'average' to ND
[23:14] dejon- I just have to make one galley order change Togas - doing it now
[23:14] nbarclay- Let me take one last look over the orders, if you don't mind.
[23:15] nye- leave salamanca with one pike?
[23:15] Togas- sure, I'll wait.
[23:15] nye- although, i think it unlikely they will dash to the south after jest being handed a bloddy nose
[23:16] dejon- We built walls in salamanca, may as well defend it
[23:16] nye- there is one pike, yes?
[23:16] BigFree- yes
[23:16] nye- another south of there?
[23:16] BigFree- one pike
[23:16] nbarclay- No suggestions for further changes from me.
[23:16] asleepath- so leave the iron deposit as is and no move on leon this turn?
[23:16] BigFree- nye: there's a pike 8-8 of valencia
[23:16] dejon- Where was the Spear 77 from Salamanca going?
[23:17] asleepath- it cut the road last turn
[23:17] BigFree- Most likey to Pamplona for upgrade
[23:17] nye- back the road with hill
[23:17] asleepath- yes, good
[23:17] BigFree- We should pillage the Iron now
[23:17] nbarclay- ND has no viable way to cut off Salamanca from reinforcements.
[23:17] Togas- he's an excellent observer
[23:17] nye- one pike from pamplona to salamanca might be prudent
[23:18] nye- so it is there and fortified if and when they top that rise
[23:18] BigFree- true
[23:18] Togas- Do I pillage Iron?
[23:18] BigFree- though they cant attack it in one turn from their current position
[23:19] nye- togas, the spear could pop back up there any turn you want to peak
[23:19] nbarclay- NYE's idea is to have an extra unit already fortified if they attack.
[23:19] BigFree- yes, pillage the Iron to prent them from building Pikes
[23:19] dejon- Salamanca doesn't have much mil. value
[23:19] nye- they cannot kill it behind the ridge
[23:20] nye- dejon, salamanca is the key to the south. if nd ever realise it
[23:20] Togas- 4 Iron Road cut
[23:20] BigFree-
[23:20] Togas- though it pains me to cut a road with such history.
[23:21] nye- i can imagine
[23:21] Togas- We have a spear and a pike 2-3 of Vigo
[23:21] Togas- keep both there fortified?
[23:22] BigFree- BTW, where does GoW troops show up on GS'es radar?
[23:22] BigFree- Togas; I would move Pike 4 and cut that road next turn
[23:22] asleepath- bilbao 77 last turn
[23:22] dejon- Togas, guess so - they're there for bait
[23:22] BigFree- thanks asleep
[23:23] nbarclay- BF, are you talking about troop strength, or location?
[23:23] BigFree- The road at Vigo 2-1 should be cut
[23:23] dejon- BF - do you think ND is going to rush a temple?
[23:23] Togas- Dejon -- move a unit to gems or not?
[23:23] BigFree- Location Nbarclay
[23:23] BigFree- dejon: they may
[23:23] BigFree- I know I miight
[23:24] dejon- even if they grow Vigo, they have to connect these cities with the rest of ND again too - there's plenty of other points for us to cut later
[23:24] nbarclay- Fourteen riders 7-7 from Bilbao. No other GoW forces in sight.
[23:24] Togas- that's their army, even their galleys on the east coast have moved north
[23:25] BigFree- dejon: the reason is to prevent them from getting units to the South of Spain to quickly
[23:25] Togas- The Pinta has been looking for a fight, and had no luck
[23:25] dejon- however, moving to the gems may encourage them to take the bait of those two, so it might be a good idea anyways
[23:25] Togas- I'll move the pike...
[23:26] Togas- ah ha!
[23:26] Togas- 4 ND ships sighted!
[23:26] BigFree- Does anyone else get the impression that GoW is pussyfooting it?
[23:26] Togas- they are 1 1 1 from Vigo
[23:26] dejon- BF- we'd have to pillage S of Vigo to make a difference on their speed to distant southern spain
[23:27] BigFree- that one road 1-2 of Vigo also delays them
[23:28] dejon- Do you think ND would put Ansars on those boats to go ravage southern Spain?
[23:28] BigFree- possibly
[23:28] dejon- they had the roads to get on them
[23:28] BigFree- they are three turns from Sevilla
[23:29] Togas- they could change their mind if they believe we have a strong northern army.
[23:30] Togas- 4 where to move the Madrid workers?
[23:30] nbarclay- Are you planning to post something about the success of your glorious crusade on the public forum?
[23:31] BigFree- we definatley should
[23:31] Togas- absolutely
[23:31] nbarclay- What's the status of getting a second source of spices hooked up?
[23:31] dejon- Did you guys still want a road at NM 9?
[23:31] Togas- 2nd spice ... glad you mentioned it.
[23:31] Togas- We need to make that a priority in the south.
[23:32] Togas- in 2 turns we can have 3 workers on it
[23:32] nye- yes, togas. nm9 is a very good tile to have a road on, nathan?
[23:32] Togas- 4 Castor & Pollox moved to New Madrid 9
[23:33] nbarclay- I wish you'd waited a little longer, if there's anything else useful the workers might do.
[23:33] Togas- 4 The Isabella (galley) moves 9 9 and stops there to not interfere with GS movement
[23:33] dejon- aargh -no!
[23:33] dejon- damn
[23:33] Togas- ??
[23:33] dejon- I edited that order
[23:33] Togas- what is new order?
[23:33] dejon- 98
[23:34] Togas- I have 1 move left
[23:34] Togas- can move to 8 if needed
[23:34] dejon- move inland please
[23:34] Togas- will do
[23:34] nbarclay- Thanks.
[23:34] nbarclay- The original order interfered with where I wanted to unload our settler from.
[23:34] Togas- done
[23:34] dejon- sorry for the aargh - I forgot we'd only used 2 move points.
[23:35] nbarclay- If Togas had hit the space bar to end the ship's movement, the aargh would have been completely warranted.
[23:35] Togas- 4 Pinta sighted GoW ships to the northwest
[23:35] Togas- they are 9 of the eastern gems
[23:35] dejon- please refresh your browser, btw Togas (to catch any other edits)
[23:35] Togas- seem to be headed home
[23:36] dejon- we'll catch em!
[23:37] nbarclay- Pinta will chase them right into the grip of Santa Maria, right?
[23:37] BigFree- yep
[23:37] Togas- right
[23:38] Togas- all galleys done
[23:38] nbarclay- Are the GoW galleys both regulars?
[23:38] Togas- yep
[23:38] BigFree- what do you think about rushing a Pike in Merida(central Spain) that would be done otherwise in 3 turns for 32 gold. I would want him to head south to intercept any Ansar attacks on Sevilla.
[23:39] Togas- The only unit left to move are the Republican Volunteers (spears) near Salamaca
[23:39] Togas- either move them 3 or fort them
[23:39] dejon- no
[23:39] dejon- saving money for Knights
[23:39] Togas- Move spear or Fort?
[23:39] dejon- move 3
[23:40] nye- 32 to rush a vet?
[23:40] BigFree- no, a reg
[23:40] Togas- reg
[23:40] nye- oh
[23:40] nye- damn if they get loose in the south
[23:40] dejon- BF - it's a decent rush, but we have to conserve for Knights.
[23:41] BigFree- well, what do we conserve for if we have nothing left, its a gamble ewither way
[23:41] * asleepath thinks another reason to move on leon soon
[23:41] Togas- shall we move any units south?
[23:42] Togas- out of Pamplona?
[23:42] Togas- we will be "teleporting" another pike and inf to Pamp next turn with the Madrid gifting
[23:42] BigFree- We will also be losing 20 gpt from NM
[23:42] nye- a couple of mi might not be a bad idea. to be able to deal with the marauders
[23:42] BigFree- luckily we make 39gpt
[23:43] Togas- we need to conserve cash in anticipation of knights
[23:43] BigFree- I know
[23:43] Togas- after we get chiv and do upgrades, we rush as needed.
[23:43] dejon- yeah, but it hinders our ability to launch any attacks of our our
[23:43] BigFree- I'm just bringing up how much we lose this turn
[23:43] dejon- I guess we should send some defenders south from pamp
[23:44] dejon- maybe 2 pikes and an MI?
[23:44] Togas- 4 Pamplona builds pike or horse?
[23:44] dejon- hmm
[23:44] BigFree- Pike
[23:44] BigFree- we cant afford upgrades now as it is
[23:44] asleepath- I would go for Mi, personally
[23:44] dejon- It's not looking good for upgrade costs
[23:44] nbarclay- How many shields per turn does Pamplona produce?
[23:44] asleepath- but I have no idea of the production capacity
[23:44] BigFree- 11 shields
[23:44] BigFree- Pike material
[23:45] Togas- in 4 turns it will be up to 14
[23:45] dejon- BF - thanks for reminding us that losing NM for 2 turns will hinder our upgrade cash more - maybe we should just rush that Pike
[23:45] nbarclay- Hits 14 on the fourth turn?
[23:45] BigFree- from now, yes
[23:45] Togas- will grow and mine will be ready by then.
[23:45] nbarclay- If that's true, building a pike and then switching to MedInf production would be perfect.
[23:46] Togas- 4 pamplona switch to pike
[23:46] dejon- switch Zara to Pike too please
[23:47] BigFree- Zara is at 9 shields per turn
[23:47] dejon- horses will cost us too much
[23:47] nbarclay- No way to get it higher right now, I suppose?
[23:47] dejon- wait for knights
[23:47] BigFree- if we removed the ND Mi, we could get 10
[23:47] dejon- we need to adjust the Zara WF, btw
[23:47] nbarclay- But only until they put something else on the tile.
[23:47] BigFree- true
[23:47] Togas- already adjusted Zara WF
[23:47] dejon- okay
[23:47] Togas- to use the forest/game
[23:47] nbarclay- WF?
[23:47] dejon- workforce
[23:48] nbarclay- Ah.
[23:48] dejon- SPDG lingo
[23:48] Togas- unfortunately Z makes 9spt with ND on that tile.
[23:49] Togas- we lost 1 to corruption
[23:49] BigFree- make a taxman with the extra pop in Zara
[23:49] BigFree- no need to work jungle
[23:49] BigFree- we dont need pop to drop now
[23:49] Togas- no taxman
[23:49] Togas- w/o taxman we have 20 commerce
[23:50] Togas- with taxman we have 18
[23:50] BigFree- but, if we work jungle we risk dropping pop to 6 and losing defense bonus
[23:51] dejon- Do you have to be working the jungle have disease risk?
[23:51] BigFree- and you only lose one commerce doing so
[23:51] Togas- does anyone know if there is a realistic chance of disease if we do this?
[23:51] BigFree- the 18 with a taxman, doesn't count the one commecre from the taxman
[23:51] Togas- we have worked the Santiago jungle tiles for centuries and never had disease
[23:52] Togas- We have never suffered from disease in our long history
[23:52] BigFree- I had disease in our FAM 2 game
[23:52] BigFree- I lost 3 pops
[23:52] dejon- I didn't think the WF assignment mattered, only whether you had disease tiles in your borders. But I don't know for fact.
[23:52] Togas- true, the taxman adds 1 commerce, so our net commerce is -1 with him
[23:52] BigFree- nye?
[23:53] BigFree- can you confirm working a jungle tile gives a city risk for disease
[23:53] nye- you risk disease if you work the tiles
[23:53] nye- we got disease 3 times in eots, from flood plains
[23:53] BigFree- ouch
[23:53] nbarclay- BF, was your disease in that game this far into it, or was it earlier?
[23:53] BigFree- it was in the very begiining
[23:54] BigFree- Like about 15 turns into it
[23:54] nbarclay- It seems to me that disease is a whole lot worse in the early game than it is farther on.
[23:54] dejon- ouch. I've had disease maybe 3 times in ALL my civs games, SP and MP
[23:54] nbarclay- In this game, GS got hit with disease in our capital three times relatively early.
[23:54] BigFree- It's not worth the risk for one commerce IMO
[23:54] nbarclay- But we've been working a much higher number of flood plains for the last few centuries and no disease at all.
[23:55] nbarclay- I think you'd be pretty safe.
[23:55] Togas- advice? Is it worth the VERY slim chance of disease for us to have +1 commerce? (and half the growth)
[23:55] Trip- knock on wood :P
[23:55] BigFree- If we lose on e pop we lose 50% defense bonus
[23:55] dejon- I guess we're lucking Leon never had disease
[23:55] nbarclay- And note that the difference isn't just one commerce. It's also one food per turn toward growing your next pop point.
[23:55] nye- togas, the question is, is the 1 gold worth the risk of the loss of the 50% defense bonus?
[23:55] Togas- Leon and Santiago both never had disease. God looks favorably on Spain
[23:56] Trip- ACS_MarkG- server reboot in a couple of minutes!
[23:56] Togas- damn!
[23:56] BigFree- Nbarclay, we have no tiles to work for that extra pop anyways, its rather useless to grow
[23:56] dejon- vite vite!
[23:56] Trip- to undernet!
[23:56] Togas- before we go
[23:56] dejon- we're almost done no?
[23:57] nbarclay- Will you have extra tiles when you get your cities back?
[23:57] Togas- BF & NYE say taxman, yes?
[23:57] BigFree- yes
[23:57] Togas- Dejon, your take?
[23:57] nbarclay- In any case, it doesn't make a huge difference one way or the other.
[23:57] dejon- I say work the jungle
[23:57] nbarclay- (Unless you do get hit with disease.)
[23:57] Togas- nbarclay seems in favor of present WF
[23:57] nye- togas, you city, your call
[23:57] dejon- I want knights
[23:57] Togas- actually, the City once belonged to the Dejon family
[23:57] Togas- before it was given to the Church ...
[23:58] BigFree- at one commerce dejon, you get little help from the jungle
[23:58] dejon- it's been in Aidun's hands longer than mine
[23:58] dejon- true BF
[23:58] Togas- and it's now in my hands with the emergency war powers
[23:58] dejon- pacify the conservatives, taxman
[23:58] Togas- taxman it is.
[23:58] dejon- we'll rack the points now and make a truly daring and risky move later
[23:59] BigFree- I will set up MilOps cahnnel on Undernet
[23:59] dejon- :P
[23:59] Togas- 4 all posted orders done
[23:59] BigFree- ok
[23:59] Togas- 4 all city WF and builds checked
[23:59] BigFree- no need for channel then
[23:59] dejon- diplo done?
[23:59] Togas- not yet
[23:59] dejon- luxes, tech
[23:59] Togas- will do diplo now
[23:59] BigFree- gift city to GS and give the one lux we have
[23:59] Togas- will give lux, tech, wb, madrid
[23:59] BigFree- plu all gold
[23:59] Togas- and all gold...
[23:59] BigFree- whats wb?
Session Close: Sun Jul 27 00:00:00 2003
Poly chat shutdown at this point, but we were done anyways.

[GodKing]

Sorry I missed it.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Togas
military:
THE GLORIOUS ATTACK AGAINST THE MOORISH INVADERS! OUR FIRST GREAT BATTLE!
Our great Infantry in Zaragoza attack the Moorish invaders. We lose 1 inf division, we kill 2 pike and 3 infantry divisions of the Moors! One of our Infantry is promoted to elite. All are safe within the walls of Zaragoza. It is a great day for General Dejon's forces.

Just one division? It is clear that our forces are blessed by God! (and of course they have a very important help from our generals! )

I'm sure that someone won't like this

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Togas
THE GLORIOUS ATTACK AGAINST THE MOORISH INVADERS! OUR FIRST GREAT BATTLE!
Our great Infantry in Zaragoza attack the Moorish invaders. We lose 1 inf division

Which one?

, we kill 2 pike and 3 infantry divisions of the Moors! One of our Infantry is promoted to elite.

Which one?

(important for knowing whether any of our characters were involved and whether any might be dead and can be eulogized for their service in the battle).

Thanks.

[Arnelos]

Ok, there's just no way I'm reading that entire chatlog... someone want to summarize any major points?

Sorry I couldn't make it.

[History Guy]

Splendid!

Victory! Victory! Victory is ours!

(at least on that field...)

Lord Toledo

[Fibrizzo]

Great!

I'm looking forward the next edition of "Bravery" and "Cowardice"... he he

[Togas]

dead: The newly trained division of Infantry "The Fist of God" which would have no characters attached to it.

Promoted: The Knights of St. John.

--Togas

[History Guy]

The Fist of God? Sorry, chaps, don't know them. However, I think that they were perhaps the very best men I never knew.

Lord Toledo

[BigFree]

I think they were the new unit created out of Zara on this turn.