Preparing for World War Bob

[Aidun]

Dejon, have you thought of the protection that the jungle is giving us? Because of the jungle, the Ansars can't move fast. If we have catapults and MI, we can shoot them while they are marching through the jungle. It would also be good that we try to demolish the road that is likely to be build under Marlowa, so they move even slower. Jungle turns cavalry into infantry, infantry that can hardly defend themselves. Keep that in mind. We can use the same strategy as GS used against Vox.

Duke Aidun Cian of Zaragoza

[BigFree]

Combined arms is the answer. Not too many of any one type will be the answer.

Doing all Pikes would be a mistake.

Should we chance our galley coming across the sea to get our 2 Horsemen sooner? I think it is well over ten tunrs the long way.

[Hot Mustard]

I never said we'd only ever build Pikes.

For the Nth time, we are short Pikemen right now, and we have to make up the difference quickly. Which is why I'm recommending that at least the first wave of units we build/rush is mostly Pikes.

[LzPrst]

I'm not sure about vigo building more pikemen as we dont have a barrax there. i'd rather have walls in case they try a rush along our western coast (ignoring or destrying santiago). After all we produce virtually ALL of the nations iron. we need to protect our iron!

I suggest a large defencive/offensive force near or in santiago and a skeleton defence in vigo (1 pike in city, 1 on iron) UNTIL the attack comes. then we must be ready to supply with lots more pikes if they break through.

[BigFree]

Uh, yes you did.

Why all the Pikes? Because we are not planning an offensive, we are planning defense. I know, I know - "Offense is the best defense". The problem is, it is too late for that. We haven't got Chivalry, nor enough horses to upgrade if we did have it. The first and possibly second build waves must protect Spain. Only after we have blunted the assaults of our enemies can we then turn the battle to their lands, with offensive units. Medieval Infantry are fine counter assaults in our own lands, but they're also ripe pickings for Ansars/Riders. We have just enough Med. Inf at the moment, and a lack of defenders to compliment them. I believe we should over build defenders first, and then catch up with the offensive units afterwards, hopefully with Knights instead of Med. Inf.

Granted you did say you'd build more offensive units afterwards; but "after" what exactly? The war? We need more MI and Cats now in addition to more Pikes. We can't wait for ND to atack before we build more MI's


Here's two scenarios, one with attacks not accross a river and one with:

A 4 (MI)attack against a 2.5 (Ansar w/jungle bonus)=attacker wins 73.9%

A 4 (Ansar)attack against a 5.5(Pike w/walls and fortify bonus)= defender wins 67.3%

Or, with river bonuses:

A 4 (MI)attack against a 3 (Ansar w/jungle bonus)=attacker wins 65.4%

A 4 (Ansar)attack against a 6.3(Pike w/walls and fortify bonus)= defender wins 73.2%


So, it is better to attack with MI's than to defend with Pikes if we can get them to come at us not accross a river. Since that is what they are most likely to try and do, we shouuld build MI's for that instance since the numbers indicate they do better.

Just a note, the numbers above are all in our favor. We win in over 2/3's of the individual battles. If we had a few Cats, the numbers for our side would increase. For instance in the attacker was hit by a Cat on his way in:

A 4 (3 HP Ansar)attack against a 6.3 (4 HP Pike w/walls and fortify bonus)= defender wins 87.3% (instead of the 73.2%)



This is what I think we are capable of having in ten turns from now, including rush buying units and improvements:

31 Pikes
22 MI
6 Cats

This is what we will have avaiable on the next turn, this includes some upgrades that are not done yet:

18 Pikes
12 MI
0 Cats

So what would be wrong with that mix in your opinion?

[Hot Mustard]

OK, orders posted for 90BC, please provide feedback.

Originally posted by BigFree
Granted you did say you'd build more offensive units afterwards; but "after" what exactly? The war? We need more MI and Cats now in addition to more Pikes. We can't wait for ND to atack before we build more MI's

I always overstate my arguments in order to ensure I get the minimum I want.

We are building some Med. Inf. already, and I assume that Zaragoza will build another, since its shields are so suited to it right now. However, I sincerely believe that it would be best for the rest to build at least one pikeman (many of which can be rushed) before moving onto a more balanced mix, including cats.

I appreciate your calculations - they make me happy about the northwest front, despite our failure to build fortifications in the obvious spots.

Keep in mind that ND must know the odds are against them on that front, and so they are likely to swing over to the northeast front, where the initial odds are better.

Success against Zaragoza only grants access to Leon and Pamplona. Whereas success against Toledo will open up Pamplona and New Madrid.

[GodKing]

You are assuming that they will attack the front line cities. I would not. With the three movement of the chinese, they can very easily bypass our front line cities and start pillaging roads in the rear areas. That is our week point and one that I would exploit like mad. So what if you send in 10 units and they all get slaughtered after 3 turns. the dammage they do in those three turns (assuming it is only attacks of opportunity and nothing else) with 3 movement units will kill us.

We need mobility in our defence, not static forts (actually, both are needed, but we already have the forts for the most part). We need to be able to hit them quicly and KILL them (they have the retreat option, remember).

Secondly, do we have longbowmen yet? if so, they upgrade just like MI, are cheaper, and when placed in a combined arms group are very effective. Look at it.

Horses are cheap, and can win most of the time against a weekend knight like unit. If they do get our roads, we will want a couple of them in our reserves to block their assults.

How recent is our map of theirs? How recent is their map of ours? Heck, someone send me a current save (or of the current model) and I can look for myself. Thanks.

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by GodKing
You are assuming that they will attack the front line cities. I would not. With the three movement of the chinese, they can very easily bypass our front line cities and start pillaging roads in the rear areas. That is our week point and one that I would exploit like mad. So what if you send in 10 units and they all get slaughtered after 3 turns. the dammage they do in those three turns (assuming it is only attacks of opportunity and nothing else) with 3 movement units will kill us.

We need mobility in our defence, not static forts (actually, both are needed, but we already have the forts for the most part). We need to be able to hit them quicly and KILL them (they have the retreat option, remember).

Secondly, do we have longbowmen yet? if so, they upgrade just like MI, are cheaper, and when placed in a combined arms group are very effective. Look at it.

Horses are cheap, and can win most of the time against a weekend knight like unit. If they do get our roads, we will want a couple of them in our reserves to block their assults.

How recent is our map of theirs? How recent is their map of ours? Heck, someone send me a current save (or of the current model) and I can look for myself. Thanks.

We face the pillaging and mobility problem regardless of whether we build Infantry or Med. Inf., and those units are our only real options currently (+ strategic cats).

RE: Longbowmen - we have neither Engineering or Invention.

I disagree on Horses - they'll just get slaughtered.

The more I think about it, we have been manuevered into a very bad spot - no Engineering, no Chivalry, last to get Fuedalism, no allies, and at least two civs with 3 movement UUs about to come bearing down on us.

[mrmitchell]

We MUST try to cojangle Lego out of all we can--techs, money, whutever. We need to let them know it's in their best interest to keep all the Bobian nations evenly matched and weak.

We must build more Pike and Med Inf. Defense is the first priority, but the best offense is a good defense as they always say. So, even or slightly in favor of one, but we can't go out and build ALL pike or ALL med. (We already discussed that...good strategy on the getting the minimum, Dejon. )

Catapults are also a must. We can use them to damage incoming Ansars (and pillage their road to us), and then the Med Inf can finish them off.

Lastly, we can threaten to all join whutever team defeats us, so they'll be forced to deal with all our roleplay spam.

[History Guy]

We need Medieval Infantry! Without them, we can't defend ourselves in a siege! They will pick us to pieces if we can't strike them outside our cities!

This looks bleak indeed.

Lord Toledo

[Hot Mustard]

90BC report:

The Northwest
-completed a new Med. Inf. in Zaragoza, which is headed to the eastern front
-reassigned a Smashing Maul (western front) to head to eastern front
-rushed a Pike in Santiago
-rushed a Pike in Vigo, which will take over garrison duty for the city
-moved the Vigo garrison unit to the Iron deposit
-started moving the Iron Maul to the western defense stack
-moved Mtn Watch unit towards Zaragoza
-Salamanca Spear going to Pamplona for upgrade, will garrison Pamplona
-Pamplona Guard sent towards eastern front
-Nina brought up west coast to keep an eye out for rival boats

The Northeast
-Watch Rider sent up coastal corridor - hoping to discover what ND and/or GoW are up to and force their hands

-Bashing Mauls are being brought up into position

-Established recon spot atop mtn overlooking jungle

The Interior

-Cordoba Guard moving north as backup. City will need to get connected soon to prevent unhappiness (15 turns?)

-Seville Spear moving towards Pamplona for upgrade. Replacement spear will be completed in 2 turns.

East Coast & South

-Shuffling garrison units to strategic waypoints that allow more flexibility. See shots for details.

-GuObs heading towards Cordoba/Murcia as backup garrison

Current Totals
Pike - 16
Spear headed for upgrade - 2
MedInf - 12
Western Defense (In Santiago/Zaragoza/Stack) - 10
Eastern Defense (In Toledo/Stack) - 6

Next Turn
Pike - 19
Western Defense (In Santiago/Zaragoza/Stack) - 13
Eastern Defense (In Toledo/Stack) - 7

2 turns
Pike - 20
MedInf - 14
Western Defense (In Santiago/Zaragoza/Stack) - 14
Eastern Defense (In Toledo/Stack) - 9

Current Builds
Santiago - Pike in 1
Vigo - Pike in 1
Leon - MedInf in 2
Zaragoza - MedInf in 4
Pamplona - Barracks in 1
Salamanca - Cat in 20 (might rush if needed)
Merida - Cat in 5
Sevilla - Spear in 2
Cordoba - Spear in 19 (suggest change to Worker)
Murcia - Spear in 20 (suggest change to Worker)
Valencia - MedInf in 2
Barcelona - Pike in 2
New Madrid - Pike in 5
Toledo - Pike in 1
Bilbao - Walls in 19 (might rush)

After present builds completed
Pike - 20
MedInf - 15
Cats - 2

Next Builds (recommendations, for discussion)
Santiago - Cat
Vigo - Cat
Leon - Cat
Zaragoza - MedInf
Pamplona - MedInf
Merida - Cat
Sevilla - Spear
Valencia - Cat
Barcelona - Galley
New Madrid - MedInf
Toledo - MedInf

After next builds are completed
Pike - 20
MedInf - 18
Cats - 7

I'd like to build MedInf in Leon, but it will take too long - could we get the second mtn mined?

[mrmitchell]

I support building another Spear in Sevilla.

Spamish Mitchell, Dukedom of Sevilla

[History Guy]

We need as many Medieval Infantry as we can get. Just as long as the jungles are patrolled, I'm pleased.

Don Iago de History Guy Calamari de Toledo

[mrmitchell]

but in areas where the building counts, yes, med inf is a requirement IMO.

[LzPrst]

What if the enemy trise to take Leon and establish some sort of base there? Is it properly protected? I think we need more walls on our 2nd line of defence.
Pamplona and Toledo will grow to size 6 and that will put them in the clear but Vigo and Leon wont for some time... Its a fairly cheap but valuable bonus should the evil ones try something.