Announcement

**BigFree** · June 27, 2003, 14:25

Does it allow for us to go Republic?

Yes?

Then, lets do this!

**Hot Mustard** · June 27, 2003, 14:35

In general, I agree with this proposal. However, it does nothing in rectify two growing problems in Spain:

1) The Military has no power over itself.

2) There is little cooperation or coordination amongst city governors in their builds.

If we're changing our government, even symbolically, I think we should address these issues. My suggestions:

1) Found a Military Council, comprised of the King, the Commander of the Armies, and 1-3 other appointed Lords (I suggest those with barracks in their cities to start). This council would be responsible for our defensive and offensive planning, and the Commander would remain responsible for posting specific orders. They would have the power to override city builds and worker orders when necessary for military needs.

2) Create a Minister or Council for Domestic Planning. All city governors must have their builds approved by this person or body. This ensures that city governors do not run amok - building unneeded improvements or neglecting the greater needs of Spain.

**Hot Mustard** · June 27, 2003, 14:41

Double post

**BigFree** · June 27, 2003, 15:00

I agree with a need for a Minister or Council for Domestic Planning; but you give the Military Council too much power. They could claim everything was "...necessary for military needs."

**civman2000** · June 27, 2003, 15:02

Sounds fine...as for the de la Civ's being lords, though, I think for RP purposes they should be promoted to bishops. Daniel isn't going to be happy with the Church being the judiciary, but I guess he'll have to live with it (or maybe not

).

**Hot Mustard** · June 27, 2003, 15:23

Originally posted by BigFree
I agree with a need for a Minister or Council for Domestic Planning; but you give the Military Council too much power. They could claim everything was "...necessary for military needs."

You said it, not me!

You wouldn't trust your own King?

Seriously though, something needs to be done about our lack of investment in our military.

**Togas** · June 27, 2003, 15:38

Under this new government, I think we'll downsize the ministers:

General of the Army
Cheif Ambassador
Minister of Public Works

The Lords would retain control of their cities build queues but we need a mechanism to overrule or direct them. Some possibilities:

Add an elected Domestic Minister. Have the House of Lords pass a law that the Domestic Minister can overrule or change city builds.

Create a Domestic counsel of Lords who can overrule city builds.

Since the King retains control of the Army, we could also add a rule that forms a military counsel that can also overrule city builds when necessary (as Dejon has proposed).

--Togas

**DAVOUT** · June 27, 2003, 17:15

This is not a republic, and it will not be until the nobles are judged by the nobles (except heresy), and the king is elected, designated by the nobles.

**DAVOUT** · June 27, 2003, 17:33

War (preparing or making) is not a part time job; either we do it or not. A solution would be that in peace time the War Council has powers limited to maintaining the Army (upgrading units, providing garrisons to new towns, etc), and it getS exceptional powers when a war is decided or faced.

**Aidun** · June 27, 2003, 19:48

Originally posted by dejon
In general, I agree with this proposal. However, it does nothing in rectify two growing problems in Spain:

1) The Military has no power over itself.

2) There is little cooperation or coordination amongst city governors in their builds.

If we're changing our government, even symbolically, I think we should address these issues. My suggestions:

1) Found a Military Council, comprised of the King, the Commander of the Armies, and 1-3 other appointed Lords (I suggest those with barracks in their cities to start). This council would be responsible for our defensive and offensive planning, and the Commander would remain responsible for posting specific orders. They would have the power to override city builds and worker orders when necessary for military needs.

2) Create a Minister or Council for Domestic Planning. All city governors must have their builds approved by this person or body. This ensures that city governors do not run amok - building unneeded improvements or neglecting the greater needs of Spain.

Dejon is adressing a problem I faced earlier. While I tried to find a compromise between building what Spain needs and what I myself think is good for the city (Zaragoza), I faced the problem that it has never been very clear what the domestic policy of the King really was. Perhaps the King had no real domestic policy except for occasions like the most recent Western Settlement. The governors need that coordination very much. I don't think this person or council needs the power to edict Lords to build certain projects in their city, but this person or council should at least advise the Lords and make sure there is cooperation between them.

To give one example: I lobbied some times, when the King was designing his Western Settlement plan, to let Zaragoza stick to military production. I got the idea to let Zaragoza build military units because it seemed good to me to let Spain have more soldiers and because the members of this team seemed to like it if I would buidl military units.
It would have been better if I wouldn't have lobbied at all (although its very effective

) but would have communicated with the other governors to make a design. It would also have been better if I would not have made my finger wet, have put it in the air and felt in what direction the wind was blowing (that's in fact what I did as governor), but would have got advise from above form someone who has a better overall-view.

About the Military council. The King is currently, and should remain to be the commander-in-chief of the Royal Spanish Army. He cannot fulfil this task without support from generals and governors. I think it would be good if the governors of the biggest Spanish cities, together with the General (vice commander-in-chief) would form a commission that would advise the King on military issues. These advises should be made public so that others can react on this and have their comments.
The King should argue his decisions in the meetings in the House of Lords, but that counts for every thing and not particular the militay issues.

Furthermore, I want to state that I fully support the proposal of his Majesty King Justino Togas I.

This is my opinion.

Another thing: [pope mode]I want to restructure the Church when this system will be adopted. this contains the folowing issues. Before I mention these I want to ask if ANY person who has comments on these issues, would please not post his reaction in this thread, but in the Abbey, so that it can be discussed there..

- The Señores that are now in an executive position in the Church will be made Bishops.
- The inquisition should be subject to strict rules. I want to know from the members who have been active in the trials and inquiries what they think of the current set of ruses and if there should be even more, or less rules.
- I hope people will start founding abbeys throughout Spain. The Law contains but very few restrictiont to the founding of abbeys.
- Internationalize the Church.
- Discuss anything that you think is important for the future of the Church and eventually implement it.

I hope to finish these things before I decide that it is time for my too old character to die and that the new pope can enjoy a Church in which things work fine without querrels or revolts.

Please discuss this but in the Abbey of St Benedictus, still our only abbey.

[/pope mode]

Aidun

**History Guy** · June 27, 2003, 20:17

I agree with your proposal, Your Majesty.

**Togas** · June 30, 2003, 02:36

Lords of Spain, please post here if there are any further comments, suggestions, additions, or objections. We will shortly debate the final text of the Vigo Accord, and then I will ask all of the Lords of Spain to agree to it.

If the Lords of Spain do agree to it, we will then begin this shift in power, as I will give to the Lords a newfound responsibility and duty to Spain.

--Togas

**BigFree** · July 1, 2003, 03:28

The deal to get The Republic and Theology has been finalized. Lego should 'gift' it to us this next turn.

**Togas** · July 1, 2003, 12:47

Important! -- The Vigo Accord

Great Lords and leaders of Spain! To the many houses and families, and to the pious leaders of our beloved church. I urge you to accept this agreement. It is an agreement made between myself and the Lords, but it is also an agreement made between us all.

We have entered a potentially difficult time in our history, as our wisemen and many of our Lords have forsaken their selfish desires and dreamed up a better way to rule our people. These ideas were a slap in the face to our Monarchy and to our traditions and men have died because of it. I had feared that as the push for Republic began to spread over Spain that it would drive us into a Civil War and Anarchy. Therefore, I willfully went to Vigo to meet with the Lords to peaceful discuss and debate how change can be enacted but yet preserve our present way of life, our culture, and our traditions.

The Republican ideas we embrace are based on a system used across the sea by the People of Legoland, but we have adopted it to make it our own. There are three key elements I would like to highlight:

1) The role of the Church shall remain. We shall not be a godless state ruled by lust for power and money. The presence of the Church shall temper us, encourage wise and selfless governing, and shall ensure that God's will and God's law rules supreme over Spain.

2) The rights of the Lords to manage their own estates shall remain.

3) I hereby give up the Togas family claim of ownership of Spain. It is not just that I rule simply because my father ruled. I do not wish to be given power, I wish to deserve it. I have asked that the Lords of Spain choose the King, and I humbly ask that you freely choose me as your King. Furthermore, upon my death, if you do not feel my son is worthy to rule Spain, I ask that another greater man be chosen.

Therefore, I give you the Vigo Accord. I ask that All of the Lords and Cardinals of Spain sign and pledge to abide by this new Accord. Once this is done, I ask that we begin immediately under this new agreement and that we move boldly forward to a bright future that awaits us.

THE VIGO ACCORD

The Lords of Spain hereby agree that the power shall be shared between the King, the Church, and the Lords as follows:

The King

Supreme Executive Authority of Spain, ensures that all laws passed by the House of Lords are carried out
Head of State, represents Spain to other nations and manages foreign affairs
Appoints and Commands the key ministers: General of Spain, Cheif Ambassador, Master of Public Works
Give a grant of Lordship to an individual (OOC: allows people to join the team)
May overrule the orders of individual Lords for the greater good of Spain.
(OOC: Plays the save)
Hears appeals of Rulings by the House of Cardinals
Votes to break ties in the House of Lords
Rules for Life

House of Cardinals

The Voice and Wisdom of God in our nation
Shall Include 5 Cardinals, one of whom is named Pope
Lead by the Pope, who is chosen by the House of Cardinals
Administer the Laws and Courts of Spain
Resolves any disputes of law
May expell any Lord from the House of Lords
Protects the culture and traditions of Spain
Speak for the common people of Spain
Appoints Cardinals
In the beginning, it shall include Pope Aidun and 4 other Cardinals as selected by him.
Cardinals may also serve as Lords

House of Lords

Includes all Lords (land owners) of Spain (OOC: all team members)
Appoints a new King of Spain when the King dies
One Lord Shall be appointed Lord Chamberlain (OOC: who plays the save when the King cannot), who shall have the powers of the King when the King is absent, ill, or during periods where there is not yet a King.
Approve all treaties involving war or the potential for war
Approve all appointed Ministers
Declare War/Peace
Decide the budget and controls the finances of Spain
Make laws
All Lords of Spain (including Cardinals) may vote on proposed laws. Laws are passed by a majority vote

Rights of Lords

The Right of a Lord to manage his estate and govern his people shall only be limited by the Laws of Spain and the decisions of the King, so long as those decisions are done in the Best Interest of Spain.

Property cannot be taken from a Lord without approval of the House of Lords, nor can the life of any Lord be taken without approval of the King.

I, Justino Togas, hereby pledge to abide by this new accord.

Announcement

Important! -- The Vigo Accord

Important! -- The Vigo Accord

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