The Current situation with Vox

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by Togas
Not that our relations with GS will improve even if we don't give it to Vox. GS's attitude towards us is astoundingly hostile.

So was GoW's attitude at one time. We'll win them over.

[BigFree]

GS will have RP as it's next target no matter what. That is a fact, do not kid yourself into thinking otherwise.

We are relatively close to them, we have a larger land mass than them and can grow to out produce them. They would want to attack us before we reached that point. We are slowly getting are cities up to a good production level after having REXed in/low corruption. That is changing slowly righ t now, but GS will do everthing to reverse that process whether we give Iron to Vox or not.

So we give Iron to Vox in order to slow GS's roll towards us, if they have to concentrate on Vox, even with our help, it delays and wastes resouces that GS has on Vox/RP/GoW instead of just RP in the future.

[ruby_maser]

There is no way for GS to be sure that they won't activate the Bob Alliance by attacking us. This is our strength and our leverage.

They will also need a good percentage of their current forces to keep Vox's considerable forces in check should peace be made. And I've got my fingers crossed that it could actually happen; though, we have now destroyed any possibility of being portrayed as peaceful, unbiases arbitrators of a treaty due to PR fiasco in the "GS Public Annoucement" thread out there

[ruby_maser]

double post

*running around in circles*
I'm cursed! ARRRRRRGH!

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by BigFree
GS will have RP as it's next target no matter what. That is a fact, do not kid yourself into thinking otherwise.

We covered this in our chat last night. I'm not kidding myself into anything. Yes, GS will come for us. The only thing we might be able to affect is when.

You believe they are best delayed by us involving ourselves in the Vox/GS war.

I believe that they are best delayed by being nice, maybe making a luxury deal, and letting them finish Vox and then lick their post-war chops for a bit (recovery period), while we ramp up our defenses.

If we send units away, we have less to defend ourselves with for their eventual invasion. Also, by participating openly in their war, we make ourselves a bigger target than we already are, possibly convincing them to skip a recovery period and sending an invasion over right away, before we build up our defenses.

[astrologix]

I agree with Togas, we MUST help Vox.

However, once the war is declared against GS, they will use some of they galleys to prevent us to reach the Vox coasts. We must expect a naval war as soon as we declare war. We could lose all our galleys and our units on board !

Maybe we should wait and land and concentrate our units on Vox territory and send our empty galleys back home before declaring war. And Barcelona must continue building galleys for a while.

Another thing is that currently I don't trust ND. I think GS could involve ND in an alliance against us, even against GoW. I if were ND, I would be very interested on that, because we can't give iron to Vox and to GoW at the same time. We must be very careful and prepare our forces for that event.

It will be warm, very warm times

[History Guy]

Yes, this sounds good, I want the Persians to survive, and I don't want to see a powerful Egypt.

However, we must be realistic. Arabia, to our north, is just as much a threat to us as Egypt over the seas. We have an average-sized army compared to Arabia as it is, and a weak one compared to Egypt. With Feudalism, we may soon be on a par with Arabia if not superior, but it would be miraculous. As it is, you know that the Arabs are itching for Chivalry, and when they get their Ansars they will use them. If they use them on the Warmongers, we should assist Genghis. If they use them on us, the Warmongers should come to our aid.

But if we have troops overseas, we'll be weakened at home and we won't get those boys back.

Don Iago Calamari de Toledo

[Thud]

I am decidedly pro-Vox intervention at this point. Yes, the situation is very, very dire for Vox. One thing that works in Vox's favor, however, is that GS is not aware of the defenselessness of Vox's north.

Their strategy clearly indicates that they are aware of the highly disproportionate amount of forces in Dissidentville. However, they are not aware just how vulnerable Vox truly is.

Regardless of my pro-Vox position I consider it absolutely crucial that we do not give Iron to Vox for at least a few more turns. If GS sees that their stranglehold on the Iron is worth nothing, they will be motivated to attack a Vox city. Once they see the lack of defensive response in the north, there will be no stopping them.

Thud's Holistic Plan for GS-Vox Conflict:
1. Suggest to Vox that they move their units into a defensive position, and not attempt to dislodge GS from Iron or Hills near their settlements. Inform them that if they do so, we will be willing to help them out.

2. Order our troops into Vox's north. I think that we should have enough time to make a difference, but do not declare war on GS. Use our troops as a diplomatic tool\pressure.

3. Wait at least 3 turns until considering any gift of Iron to Vox. At the very least, this will allow us to see how the situation develops.

4. Under no circumstances allow GS to control all of their continent.

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by Thud
2. Order our troops into Vox's north. I think that we should have enough time to make a difference, but do not declare war on GS. Use our troops as a diplomatic tool\pressure.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but those troops are horsemen. When that amount of diplomatic pressure becomes unbearable for their pikeman defenses, we should consider sending our conscript warrior over there too

[Thud]

Allow me to rephrase. We need a presence in Vox's north, in order to make sure that GS does not beleive that it can take all of the continent without opposition. Perhaps we just block GS access to the north. Attacking Bob troops would not bode well for GS.

[History Guy]

You mean, mediation? Peacekeeping work? Actually, not a bad idea. If the Egyptians start going after Bobians, they'll show themselves a threat.

[Thud]

Exactly, History Guy. Exactly.

[History Guy]

I like it. I support the plan. Also, I want to burn some small, defenseless Egyptian villages for all the headache they've given us.

[BigFree]

Not a bad plan. We cannot have the Iron hooked up sooner than the end of two turns from now. (3 from when Vox lost it's Iron.)

So we send our Horsies to "block" any potential attacks or further North advancement by GS, thoug I do not believe that GS had any other plans than to camp in the positions that they are in right now. So us "blocking" the might not do anything.

I suggest that wehn we land those troops(Horemen), we keep them in Vox's North until a situation requires that they intercede or unitl we can get more troops up ther with them.

[Thud]

Yes, BigFree, I agree. Don't even let GS know that we have troops there, if they are indeed intent on staying put, and I think that they are. The idea here is to force a peace, not provoke them further in any way.