What should we build in Forkmouth?

[Kloreep]

Good points. Legopolis and Panama definitely need to work on their infrastructure; in fact, I'd avoid build a barracks, or too many more units, in Legopolis for quite a long time; I want it to get a Lib+Temp+Market and then a Cathedral, then work on a wonder (preferable Sistines). And Panama should at least get some basic buildings in along with units

Jackson may be a good site for buildings as well, but beyond a temple and a barracks, I'd prefer it to not build anything and concentrate on units (plus an occasional worker when it gets close to 20 food storage at size 6). We need military cities almost as much as commerce cities both right now, and far into the future.

As for Forkmouth, I'd like to keep it a military city for a while. Eventually it can build a temple and a courthouse; till then, we need some more military and workers from it, and it can serve that purpose nicely.

[Kloreep]

As per the forming tradition, I propose to change Forkmouth's build again. Sharpe and Zargon want another Merc soon, and Forkmouth is about the only place to fit it in. This would be just like the galley build scenario, only building/poprushing the Merc instead of the galley (same shield cost).

[vondrack]

Hmmm... I strongly oppose the notion to change Forkmouth build to a Mercenary. I have already tried to explain why to Steve in a chat... but I see it'll be better to bring it to here.

Yes, we could certainly use another Merc, that's right. But I do not really think Forkmouth is THE city to build it in. Why the rush? Why poprush a unit that will be our 9th or 10th of the kind? What would we use this unit against? Against barbarians? If so, then we don't need a costly Merc... another Warrior, later upgraded to a swordsman, would be just fine. Against some kind of an invasion? First, I can see absolutely no invasion coming. Second, even if there was an invasion coming, we have mercs enough, we would need more of offensive units for couterattacks - it would make very little difference, whether we could field 9 or 10 regular mercs... plus, building another REGULAR merc is just wasting shields - keep in mind that units return back to their "out-of-factory" rank, when they upgrade... so every regular merc we build will keep returning to the regular status every time we upgrade him to something better.

I have no problem building barracks in Forkmouth and using it as a military town thereafter. But I do have a serious problem poprushing a regular merc there (and unless we poprush him, he would be available in like, what, 20 turns? huh?)

If we really think we need another Merc so badly, then let's build him in Panama. It will be a veteran and will delay other Panama builds by 4 turns only. That would be fine with me. But building it in Forkmouth is IMHO a very bad idea.

So if this is a serious proposal, I want another vote on the issue.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack
If we really think we need another Merc so badly, then let's build him in Panama. It will be a veteran and will delay other Panama builds by 4 turns only. That would be fine with me. But building it in Forkmouth is IMHO a very bad idea.

I agree.

Actually I'm asking for a long time to build mercenaries too in Panama, after the horsies.

[Sharpe]

Hmmm... I strongly oppose the notion to change Forkmouth build to a Mercenary. I have already tried to explain why to Steve in a chat...

Yes, I did indicate your opposition on a merc to both Zargon and Kloreep. I felt that we needed more mercs and the only opening was in Forkmouth so as to not delay the buildings in the northern cities.

I have no problem building barracks in Forkmouth and using it as a military town thereafter.... If we really think we need another Merc so badly, then let's build him in Panama. It will be a veteran and will delay other Panama builds by 4 turns only. That would be fine with me.

So the path in Panama would be horse(complete this turn)-merc-temple-merc-xxx. I am ok with that too, just as long as we get 4 mercs in the next 20 turns (2 in Panama, one in Legopolis and one in Jackson)

If we can get that I can support a barracks (or even a temple!) in Forkmouth.

Btw, if I am right and there is a landmass to the NE of Legos Minor and we do divert Galleyleo to investigate it, we might want to consider getting Dyefields to build a galley after its warrior.

[Tiberius]

No, Dye Fields should build workers, but we could build that "voted" galley in Forkmouth, after all

[Kloreep]

Agreed, Dye Fields needs workers.

On Panama... I screwed up here. I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote the latest queue (Horse-Temple-Settler-Unit-Library-Settler), as we have no need for the temple till we revolt or reach size 7. The queue should be Horse(Finished this turn)-Merc-Merc-Temple-Settler. The settler will complete a few turns before Panama is ready for another growth, allowing it to jump back to size 5 quickly. In total, it'll take 19 turns to complete the Mercs, Temple, and settler (4 turns each for the units, 7 turns for the temple), so the settler should be ready just before we revolt.

So, back to Barracks first in Forkmouth.

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by vondrack
keep in mind that units return back to their "out-of-factory" rank, when they upgrade... so every regular merc we build will keep returning to the regular status every time we upgrade him to something better.

Not quite correct. Units that are conscript, reg, or vet always keep that level of experiance when they are upgraded; elite units are always downgraded to vet. It doesn't matter what the original exp level was, only what the level is at the time of the upgrade.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Kloreep
Not quite correct. Units that are conscript, reg, or vet always keep that level of experiance when they are upgraded; elite units are always downgraded to vet. It doesn't matter what the original exp level was, only what the level is at the time of the upgrade.

Oops... just checked that with a test game... you're correct! I am quite sure I read once somewhere in the strat forum that units returned to their original rank when upgraded (I knew about elites being demoted to vets though). The problem is that I build regular units so seldom that it is sort of difficult to know for sure... all my units in SP games are vets after upgrades, no matter what.

Well, in that case, I would really consider sending our regular mercs to places where they can be promoted. It will actually be as fine as having them built in a barracked city. Once a merc gets promoted to a vet, bring him back and send another. Rinse and repeat.

[ZargonX]

Well, in that case, I would really consider sending our regular mercs to places where they can be promoted. It will actually be as fine as having them built in a barracked city. Once a merc gets promoted to a vet, bring him back and send another. Rinse and repeat

Sharpe and I were talking about this the other night, and he had suggested "Safari Trips" to Legos Minor. There are a TON of barbs there right now, so if we sent over a few regular Mercs to hang out in the mountains, they'd probably come back Elites in short order. Something to think about...

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by ZargonX


Sharpe and I were talking about this the other night, and he had suggested "Safari Trips" to Legos Minor.

I like that! Can I go, too ?