Next turn plans up to 50AD

[Sharpe]

21) Beta to board G.B.

Why are we talking about using one of our own workers to add to a future Vox city when Vox are talking about sending us some Vox workers to transfer as much of their population as possible?

[Kloreep]

IIRC, we can't actually trade the workers till they have a city on our continent; so, we'd have to somehow protect New Voice from outside for 7-8 turns (till the worker arrived, integrated, and poprushed), if we don't want to use Beta. I don't think that's possible, given the current barb swarm there; protecting it for the two turns necessary for vox to build a spear (1 turn for Vox to get 1 shield on it, another turn till the poprush is taken into account and the spear is built).

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Kloreep
IIRC, we can't actually trade the workers till they have a city on our continent; so, we'd have to somehow protect New Voice from outside for 7-8 turns (till the worker arrived, integrated, and poprushed), if we don't want to use Beta. I don't think that's possible, given the current barb swarm there; protecting it for the two turns necessary for vox to build a spear (1 turn for Vox to get 1 shield on it, another turn till the poprush is taken into account and the spear is built).

Yep, exactly. We want to prevent barbs sacking The New Voice - considering Voxes are now our allies, all their losses are more or less our losses, too. We want them to grow strong again ASAP, actually becoming of some use to us - and letting barbs sack their city means letting them kill pop, steal gold, or shield production...

A Voxian worker would need about 9-10 turns to get from Legopolis to The New Voice - and would need an escort. During these 9-10 turns, we would have to protect the city from "outside" with the mere two swords we have there. Very difficult, almost impossible, I believe, considering the swarms of barbs in the area.

The worker has been inserted into the Panama build queue with minimal impact on our other builds there (Panama builds medinf, mercs, and horses just as fast @ 11spt as @ 12spt), so the only real cost is the 1t needed to build that worker and 1gpt upkeep plus the commerce we lose because of not working the riverbank plains tile.

We will be "repaid" once Voxes start teleporting their worker-pop to us. Since there will be a certain delay between they start sending the workers to us (after we found & gift them The New Voice) and before we give these workers back to them (after they abandon their last settlement on Estonia), we will use these free workers to improve our core area... most probably some jungle clearing.

[vondrack]

Plans for 290BC:


Unit Movement/Actions
Barb hunting and "reshuffling"... trying to bring our regulars to the west coast and veterans to the east coast. Two reasons: easier barb hunting trips to Legos Minor for regulars + stronger defenses against any (theoretical) invasions that would most likely come from the East.

1) Dyetrich to move S-S-S, then S-SE-S to Farmerville
reg/vet shuffling

2) NuMeric to move S-SE-S, heading for Zargonia

3) Gaul to move N

4) Legopolis settler to board G.B.

5) G.B. to move E-N-N

6) Conan to move NW-NW-W, then NW-W-W to Forkmouth for an upgrade

7) MercG to move SE-SE-E, then fortify in Logville

8) Alexander to sentry

9) DyeHard to sack the barb camp S

10) Silver to move W-N

11) Troy to move W-N, searching the camp

12) G.G. to move E-NE-N

13) Angus to kill the barb horse N

14) Howard to move S, back to the coast - will be needed to escort our settler+worker pair to the site of the new Voxian capital


Worker Movement/Actions

15) Jason Jr. to road

16) Leopold to move SW and irrigate

17) Forrest to move W and mine

18) Frank Jr. to mine

19) Rover to road


City Management

20) Legopolis WF to work all four fully improved hills, cattle and the fully improved bonus grassland

21) Jackson to start building a horse, the specialist to be changed to a labourer working the fully improved hill SW of the city

22) Farmerville labourers to work the three fully improved riverbank grasslands & wheat

23) Forkmouth to start building a merc, labourers to work game, all fully improved bonus grasses & a hill
nets us 6 shields - 5 turn 30-shield units!

24) Karina to goldrush its courthouse build for 216 gold
yes! FP one step closer!

25) new Dye Fields labourer to work the dyes being roaded

26) new Logville labourer to work the unimproved riverbank grass

27) new Sharpehaven labourer to work the wheat

[vondrack]

First: playing the turn, I made some minor changes to the plan as posted here:

1) I let Howard rest, healing (he would have been exposed to a barb horse, unfortified - with just two pips left, I thought it would be better to play it safely - there was no rush)

2) I set Forkmouth to build a worker. He will be done exactly in 2 turns (no shield loss) and far more useful than a taxman, I believe.

3) and naturally, I sent G.B. to the open sea, instead of to the Plastico River...


Plans for 270BC (Turn 115):


Unit Movement/Actions
Barb hunting and "reshuffling"... trying to bring our regulars to the west coast and veterans to the east coast. Two reasons: easier barb hunting trips to Legos Minor for regulars + stronger defenses against any (theoretical) invasions that would most likely come from the East.

1) Dyetrich to move S-SE-S, then fortify in Farmerville
reg/vet shuffling

2) NuMeric to move SE-SE-SE, heading for Zargonia

3) Gaul to be upgraded to Medieval Infantry

4) G.B. to move N-N-NW

4a) settler+Beta to land N

5) Conan to move NW-W-W to Forkmouth for an upgrade

7) MercG to fortify in Logville

8) DyeHard to kill the barb warrior NW

9) Silver to sentry

10) Troy to move N, searching for the barb camp

11) G.G. to move E-N-N

12) Angus to move E
Angus has been promoted to vet, so he will head back to Panama for an upgrade to Medieval Infantry now (no need to promote him further, as elites change back to vets after being upgraded); Dycedarg and Gaul will replace him for barb hunting duties

13) Howard to move S, to the coast
will escort the settler+worker pair to the site of the new Voxian capital


Worker Movement/Actions

14) Ken to move SE-E-NE, heading for the hill SE of Tarzania
(will road and mine it, connecting Tarzania to our road network)

15) Robbie to mine

16) George to move SW, then mine & road

16a) Logger to move NE, then mine & road


City Management

17) reassign Farmerville labourer from wheat to forest?
I suspect that with the pop growth in Farmerville this turn, we will actually produce 5 shields, not only four. If that's true, then arrange the workforce there so that the next worker is finished on the next turn (even if it means negative foodflow). Specialist to become a taxman.

18) Karina to start building the Forbidden Palace

19) reassign Sharphaven labourer from the roaded grass to the gold hill
(more commerce & shields, no pop growth delay)

20) reassign the Zargonia labourer from the unimproved hill to the roaded grassland
as per Kloreep's fine suggestion (see his post below)

21) Panama to start building a merc
though this need not be the final decision - I am still considering another horse or even a catapult... we'll see


22) send Theology to GS as "accepted"
see DeepO's PM posted in the GS thread - if GS agrees to the Theo for no-Sistine clause, they will take the deal ingame (probability: 99%), if not, they will not accept it ingame.

[Sharpe]

I think we need to build a couple of mercs very soon - currently 2 very important cities are undefended - Legopolis and RedBricks. I would be tempted to change the vet horsemen build in Jackson to a vet merc next turn.

Am I correct in assuming that MightyMerc will be moving to Karina after NuMeric assumes the defense of Zargonia?

Also there are a lot of barbs still on Legos Minor near the planned site of the New Voice city, is it wise to only have Howard as the defense for the settler and worker right now? Shouldn't we have moved at least one of the Med Infs and left Beta the worker behind?

I would recommend sending GB N-N-N next turn as we can land the settler and the worker next turn on the horse while moving Howard S to protect them. With all of those barbs still around to the west, we are going to have to take a route through the mountains to the New Voice city spot.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Sharpe
I think we need to build a couple of mercs very soon - currently 2 very important cities are undefended - Legopolis and RedBricks. I would be tempted to change the vet horsemen build in Jackson to a vet merc next turn.

Well, Legopolis and Red Bricks actually need no defense - all enemy units have to penetrate through our "border defenses" first. This is 100% true for Red Bricks, as that city is fully surrounded by other cities that do have garrisons, and partially true for Legopolis - only one direction is not covered for Legopolis (North), but that's what I would like to handle with a horse stationed in the Northern mountains.

The reason for building horses instead of mercs now is that we have mercs enough to defend all our "border" cities - but lack mobile forces able to flexibly respond to threats to our terrain improvements. Mercs just does not cut it when it comes to hunting barb horsies down... they are too slow. Properly placed horses should be able to handle barbarians more swiftly than mercs.

As for the "master defense plan", stay tuned, please.

I am working on a major thing - it is a pretty complex system/plan (though the principle is very simple) and I need lots of pictures to make it easy to understand (and to make sure there are no weak points).

I hope to have a presentation ready soon.

Originally posted by Sharpe
Am I correct in assuming that MightyMerc will be moving to Karina after NuMeric assumes the defense of Zargonia?

Most probably, yes.

Originally posted by Sharpe
Also there are a lot of barbs still on Legos Minor near the planned site of the New Voice city, is it wise to only have Howard as the defense for the settler and worker right now? Shouldn't we have moved at least one of the Med Infs and left Beta the worker behind?

One sword should be enough to protect the combo from barbs while under way to the city site - fortunately, the "caravan" will be sticking to mountains all the time, so the sword defense will be at least 3 + the chieftain barb combat bonus. I hope it will do. **** may happen, of course, but the odds are pretty much with us, I believe. Odds are actually much better than if leaving Beta behind - since after founding the city and handing it over to Voxes (which is what we now need most, as without that city, Voxes can't start transferring their pop to our landmass), we would have to protect the city from barbarians "from outside", which would be extremely difficult, considering the level of barb infestation and the harsh terrain on Legos Minor.

With Beta joining the newly found city, Voxes will be able to rush a spear right after receiving the city from us (or a turn later, not exactly sure how long it will take to "accumulate" that one compulsory shield needed for the 1-poprush to work). That spear, fortified, shall be more than enough to stop anything that Howard (and later Gaul & Dycedarg that will take the next ferry) will not be able to take out outside of the city.

Originally posted by Sharpe
I would recommend sending GB N-N-N next turn as we can land the settler and the worker next turn on the horse while moving Howard S to protect them. With all of those barbs still around to the west, we are going to have to take a route through the mountains to the New Voice city spot.

This actually made me think of a plan slightly better than my original one:

T115: G.B. moves N-N-NW and the "passengers" land N (SW of the horse); Howard moves S to the mountain W of the horse. Fortunately, there is no barb horse withing the striking range of the for-this-one-turn-undefended, just landed settler+worker combo. Angus moves E.

T116: combo moves to the mountain and is protected by Howard from that moment on. G.B. moves SW-SW-W and Angus embarks S.

T117: "caravan" moves N, G.B. with Angus aboard moves E-SE-SE

T118: "caravan" moves NW, G.B. moves SE-S-S, Angus disembarks E and Dycedarg & Gaul board G.B. W

This is probably the fastest way to get promoted Angus back to Panama and reinforcements/hunters aboard (and to Legos Minor). No risk involved.

[Kloreep]

Some additions:
Logger NE (then mine)
Move Zargonia citizen on the hill SW of the city to the roaded grass NW of the city. This will enable the city to grow in 5 turns, and pop rush unhappiness will wear off in 4 turns, just in time. No shields will be lost if we switch back in 3 turns, at which point the grass would be wasted food anyway.

Also, what should Panama build? Another military unit; but what? Horse?

[Sharpe]

Properly placed horses should be able to handle barbarians more swiftly than mercs.

Frankly, except in Legos Minor, barbs are rapidly becoming more of an annoyance than a threat these days. However, the other civs are becoming much more of a threat - much much more with the amount of space available on Bob dwindling with each turn.

The reason for building horses instead of mercs now is that we have mercs enough to defend all our "border" cities

Actually we don't have enough defenses in our border cities - 1 unit per city and none in some is not a good defense especially against human players - right now only Jackson and Panama have multiple units in them. For our core northern area, we need to move toward 2 units per city at a minimum and a mobile strike force centered at Legopolis.

And what if a civ bypasses our border cities like Vox did in the invasion of GS. Yeah, Vox ultimately lost but it would be a major problem for us if they pulled the same strategy. It is obvious to most that our main cities are Panama, Legopolis, Jackson and Dyefields (since they don't see RedBricks of course)

If I were attacking us, I would assume Jackson is heavily defended due to our wonder, and either go for Panama to severely damage our future capability to make war or for Dyefields to grab hold of the dyes and to establish a strong beachhead to our core. Another possibility is to land on the northern mountains or Hammer and accumulate a force before we notice.

only one direction is not covered for Legopolis (North), but that's what I would like to handle with a horse stationed in the Northern mountains.

A med inf would be better those mountains wouldn't it? I also wondered if a worker building an outpost up there might be an idea. (maybe even with Vox's replacement worker since it would be much less speedy at worker tasks than our own workers?)

[Sharpe]

Just for informational purposes as of 290bc,

Our military status compared to:

GS - weak
ND - weak
GoW - average
RP - weak
Vox - average

and that is a bit favorable towards us considering they have pikes and we have mercs

[vondrack]

Just putting together a new thread about our defense strategy, so only very briefly:

Adding more mercs at this moment serves little purpose... we would be further strengthening defenses of our cities, while neglecting our ability to counterattack. Mercs are fine to hold cities, but suck otherwise.

Knights (which those horses are actually for) are as strong on defense as mercs, while being twice as strong on offense (plus having the retreat ability). Invasions must be handled using strong mobile attackers, not strong slow defenders.

I hope I will be able to put that defense thread together before going to bed.

[vondrack]

Plans for 250BC (Turn 116):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) Dyetrich to fortify in Farmerville

2) NuMeric to move SE-E-NE, heading for Zargonia

3) MightyMerc to move W-SW-W from Zargonia, heading for Karina

4) Gaul to skip turn

5) Conan to skip turn
well, yes, we will be upgrading him, but I would first like to see the cathedral in Legopolis finished and the issue of GS' map purchase resolved, so let's wait with upgrading Conan for a wee while.

6) settler+Beta to move NW

7) Howard to fortify
waiting for the settler+worker combo, getting 100% ready for the possible "impact" from the barb horse

8) G.B. to move SW-SW-W

9) Angus to board G.B. (S)
heading back to Panama for an upgrade to Medieval Infantry; Dycedarg and Gaul will replace him for barb hunting duties

10) Misty to move NE-NE, then N-N, then sentry
controlling The Sandbox, making sure no barbs from the Northern Mountains reach our core area

11) DyeHard to move N, then NE, NE, back to the civilized lands

12) Silver to move S-S, checking for barb camps

13) Troy to sack the barb camp W, then S, then S-SE
going to check the valley along the western coast

14) G.G. to move E-NE-N, then NE-N-N, then sentry
becoming the first part of our early warning galley screen


Worker Movement/Actions

15) Ken to move NE-N-NW, then road & mine, connecting Tarzania to our road network

16) George to mine, then road

17) Logger to mine, then road

18) Rover to move E and mine
if I am not mistaken, this will speed up the mine on the iron hill by 1 turn, getting Rover and Farmer in sync at the same time, so that they will be able to go mine the hill S-SE of Karina together (2 turns to get there, 3 turns to mine then)

19) Leopold to move SW and mine
Kloreepville shall be able to work 2 irrigated grasses and four mined hills at pop 6... I would first do the mining part, continuing with the jungle clearing only then.

20) new Forkmouth worker to be named 'Fritz' and moved NW-NW, then mine & road
the "overlapping" hill will be good for both Sharphaven and Forkmouth

21) new Farmerville worker to be named 'Stanley' and moved NW
let's irrigate & road (1+2+2) the floodplains there and send Stanley North to Legopolis then (1+1+1) - after we finish the cathedral in Legopolis, we will need 2-3 workers to be added to the city ASAP to bring it to the full production swing needed for the wonder build.


City Management

22) Legopolis to stay as is
I believe we should keep building for 1 more turn, then - using Colosseum - partially goldrush for (120-(32+2*15))*4=232 gold, speeding the cathedral completion by 3 turns.

It actually comes out pretty nicely:

T115: 32S in bank, +15spt, 11F in bank, +1fpt
T116: 47S in bank, +15spt, 12F in bank, +1fpt
T117: 62S in bank, but goldrush for (120-62)*4g to 120S in bank, 13 spt, 14F in bank, +2fpt
(changing the build back to cathedral right after the goldrush, of course); we reassign one hill labourer to grass on this turn - thus the spt/fpt change
T118: 133S in bank, +13spt, 16F in bank, +2fpt
T119: 146S in bank, (13+1)spt - thanks to the pop growth, 18F in bank, +2 fpt
T120: cathedral finished, Legopolis grows to pop 7; we add 2 workers and start a wonder

23) reassign Jackson labourer from the mined hill to a coast
no delay in growth & horse completion, more commerce

24) reassign Farmerville labourers to work wheat and all mined grasses

25) new Panama labourer to work plains

26) Forkmouth to work game and all mined bonus grasses and floodplains, start building a catapult

27) new Tarzania labourer to work the grassland S-SW of the city

[Tiberius]

One more worker after the current unit in Jackson, correct? (AFAIR in 2 turns) The granary is almost full again

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
One more worker after the current unit in Jackson, correct? (AFAIR in 2 turns) The granary is almost full again

Yep, a worker next.

[Kloreep]

On Stanley: I think we should integrate Jack and Jason. Jack will be finished roading in 6 turns and can then integrate. Jason can move N or NW-N, road desert (why not? ), and then integrate immediately. Stanley, after irrigating and roading, can move N, then N-N-N, then mine gold mountain (which we will have to be using before it is mined as it is, in order to keep Red Brick's growth in check).