Next turn plans up to 50AD

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Kloreep
On Stanley: I think we should integrate Jack and Jason. Jack will be finished roading in 6 turns and can then integrate. Jason can move N or NW-N, road desert (why not? ), and then integrate immediately. Stanley, after irrigating and roading, can move N, then N-N-N, then mine gold mountain (which we will have to be using before it is mined as it is, in order to keep Red Brick's growth in check).

No problem with this - I actually posted about Stanley being (possibly) integrated into Legopolis before realizing there's a smart way of growing Legopolis by 1 pop exactly on the turn it completes the cathedral build.

So, yes - the gold mountain would be a very good target after the floodplains tile, agreed.

[vondrack]

Plans for 230BC (Turn 117):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) Gaul to skip turn

2) Misty to move N, then sentry
controlling The Sandbox, making sure no barbs from the Northern Mountains reach our core area

3) NuMeric to move E and fortify in Zargonia

4) MightyMerc to move S-S-S, heading for Karina

5) G.G. to move NE-N-N, then sentry
becoming the first part of our early warning galley screen

6) DyeHard to move NE, then NE, back to the civilized lands

7) Silver to move S-W, checking for barb camps

8) Troy to move S-SE, then rest
going to check the valley along the western coast

9) G.B. to move E-SE-SE

10) settler+Beta+Howard to move N

11) Conan to skip turn
well, yes, we will be upgrading him, but I would first like to see the cathedral in Legopolis finished and the issue of GS' map purchase resolved, so let's wait with upgrading Conan for a wee while.

12) new Jackson horse to be named 'Hunter' and moved SW-SW-SW-SW-SW, heading to our Southern provinces


Worker Movement/Actions

13) Fritz to mine

14) Leopold to mine

15) Ken to road, connecting Tarzania to our road network (then mine)

16) Stanley to irrigate, then road

17) Rover to move S-SW-S
18) Farmer to move S-SW-S
going to mine the hill S-SE of Karina

19) Jason to move N, then mine
19) Jason to move SE-SE-SE, then mine

re: Legopolis worker integration plan... Jack will be ready on Turn 121 only (one turn late, if roading that hill, which is desirable), so let's use the new worker we are going to build in Jackson ('Richard') and Robbie:
T117: Robbie finishes dye mine, Jackson starts building Richard
T118: Robbie moves NW-NW-NW, Richard moves SW-W
T119: Robbie roads (1), Richard roads (2)
T120: Robbie & Richard move SW-SW and join Legopolis

20) Forrest to move E-E-N, then road & mine


City Management

21) Legopolis to goldrush a colosseum, switching back to cathedral immediately afterwards, and reassign the labourers from the fully improved hills NE and E-NE to the fully improved riverbank grasslands S and SE of the city
goldrush should cost us (120-(32+2*15))*4=232 gold, speeding the cathedral completion by 3 turns.

The timeline:

T116: 47S in bank, +15spt, 12F in bank, +1fpt
T117: 62S in bank, but goldrush for (120-62)*4g to 120S in bank, +12 spt, 13F in bank, +3fpt
(changing the build back to cathedral right after the goldrush, of course); we reassign two hill labourers to grasses on this turn - thus the spt/fpt change
T118: 132S in bank, +13spt, 16F in bank, +2fpt
(we reassign one grass labourer back to a hill)
T119: 145S in bank, (13+2)spt - thanks to the pop growth, 18F in bank, +2 fpt
T120: cathedral finished, Legopolis grows to pop 7; we add 2 workers and start a wonder

22) reassign Jackson labourer from the coast to the mined hill and start building a worker
necessary to waste no food + the worker will be needed for the Legopolis worker integration plan

23) reassign Forkmouth labourer to work the roaded grassland instead of the floodplains
no difference in commerce, but no disease risk (I should have done this already on this turn - oversought it)

24) new Sharpehaven labourer to work the roaded grass S of the city
S'haven has food output high enough to support a specialist (sllowing pop 5-6 even with the poprush unhappiness in effect)

25) new Kloreepville labourer to work the fully improved grassland E of the city
let's get K'ville to a high pop ASAP

26) switch Panama production to a horseman
see my recent posts in the Grand Defense Plan thread - we should build the horses we need before we get Chivalry from GoW, as from that moment on, we will be unable to build 30S horses and will have to build 70S knights. Considering how much more commerce we have over others, it will be much better for us to build horses and upgrade them to knights with gold (80g per upgrade... 4 horses in service + 3 horses planned = 7*80=560 gold, which should be doable over the next ~20 turns).

[vondrack]

Just for the sake of curiosity - I tried shuffling the workforce in our cities to see where our competitors stand.

Maxxing out commerce yielded GNP of 215 - still #2 (means GS has more... which is quite admirable). This is only 11% more than our real commerce - our efficiency is fine in this regard.

Maxxing out shields yielded Mfg. Goods of 86 - still #2 (we really do have quite some catching up ahead of us). Normally, we are having Mfg. Goods 73 - a difference of 17%. Not bad.

Maxxing out productivity yielded a total of 252 - still #2. This is only 5 more than our real productivity - we are very efficient in working our tiles!

Now, looking for #3s:

#3 in Mfg. Goods has 54 megatons (19 less than we do - that's more than 25% less!)
#3 in GNP/commerce has 133 million (60 less than we do - that's more than 45% less!)

So - it seems that we have only one competitor ATM: GS.

And: our military is weak vs. GS, average vs. everybody else (yes, even vs. Spain now).

[Sharpe]

4) MightyMerc to move S-S-S, heading for Karina

Unless I have missed something, wouldn't taking the road to Karina be a lot faster? If this route is to burn off any fog or spot any units, we can always have the GG galley pass by to do the same.

Also I hope we can use the Kloreepville workers elsewhere after these minings are done as we have inefficiencies arising from new production squares in Sharpehaven, Dyefields, Forkmouth, RedBricks and others. ie no roads or no mines/irrigation in new squares

Some worker actions that might be good ideas to start soon:
-mining the Sharpehaven gold
-mining the roaded Sharpehaven grassland
-mining Rich Hill in RedBricks and converting 1 or 2 grassland squares to irrigation from mining too
-irrigating the Karina plains or mining the Karina bonus grasslands
-mining the Dyefields dyes and its hill
-creating a road NW and NW-N of Panama to increase the speed of transporting units to and from Legos Minor (we can irrigate these areas for future use too)

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack
Now, looking for #3s:

#3 in Mfg. Goods has 54 megatons (19 less than we do - that's more than 25% less!)
#3 in GNP/commerce has 133 million (60 less than we do - that's more than 45% less!)

Wow! That's great!

And: our military is weak vs. GS, average vs. everybody else (yes, even vs. Spain now).

That's good; and we shall continue growing our military.

So - it seems that we have only one competitor ATM: GS.

Yep. Too bad Vox couldn't hurt them more. But what the hell, this (and their bad RP) makes them Bob's target in the long run. At least I hope so.

[Kloreep]

Jason Jr. SE-SE-SE (then mine, then NE and clear jungle). That desert tile likely will not be used; roading it is simply the only job available in the time span needed for worker integrations. ( using Robbie and the new guy.)

Legopolis (21): Yes, goldrush the Colosseum and switch back to a Cathedral. However, that timeline won't quite work for growth, as we had only one surplus food in Legopolis this turn. (Should've adjusted it last turn. ) To grow in 4 turns (3 turns counting from 117), we need to switch the citizens on both hills NE-E and NE and put them on grasses S and SE. This will produce 3 food and 12 shields. Next turn, we switch one laborer back to a hill, producing 13 spt (25 shields total). Growth should provide the needed 15 shields, especially if we set the governor to emphasize production.

Jackson: Yes, build a worker next.

Everything else

Originally posted by Sharpe
Some worker actions that might be good ideas to start soon:
-mining the Sharpehaven gold

A worker will be moving in to position next turn.

-mining the roaded Sharpehaven grassland

I don't think this needs to be done anytime soon. Ideally, Sharpehaven Should be working the wheat, the bonus grass, and four mined hills; this holds it steady at pop 6. Two of the hills will have to be a specialist instead, until the poprush wears off, but ultimately, Sharpehaven doesn't need any more grasses than the wheat and bonus until it builds an aqueduct.

-mining Rich Hill in RedBricks and converting 1 or 2 grassland squares to irrigation from mining too

We should definitely convert the bonus grass (and mine the forest, too); this would allow both Rich Hill and the river forest to be worked. The others should be left mined, IMO.

-irrigating the Karina plains or mining the Karina bonus grasslands

Mining the bonus grass NE of the city will be needed at size 6. However, I don't think more work needs to be done till the city builds an aqueduct and solves the resulting unhappiness as well.
Once that is accomplished, I think a bonus grass (the one west of the city) should be irrigated. This, plus the cattle, will allow all five hills to be worked. Irrigated plains can make up the rest of the size-9/size-11/size-12 tiles.

-mining the Dyefields dyes and its hill

Definitely needs to be done, and has been neglected.

-creating a road NW and NW-N of Panama to increase the speed of transporting units to and from Legos Minor (we can irrigate these areas for future use too)

Good idea too. Panama should be building another worker soon, ~5 turns from now.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Sharpe

4) MightyMerc to move S-S-S, heading for Karina

Unless I have missed something, wouldn't taking the road to Karina be a lot faster? If this route is to burn off any fog or spot any units, we can always have the GG galley pass by to do the same.

MightyMerc is the regular merc N-N of the iron hill. He will be taking the road to Karina. The one you're likely to be looking at (NuMeric, the vet one W of Zargonia) is to end up being the Zargonia garrison.

Originally posted by Kloreep
Jason Jr. SE-SE-SE (then mine, then NE and clear jungle). That desert tile likely will not be used; roading it is simply the only job available in the time span needed for worker integrations. ( using Robbie and the new guy.)

Oh, of course, you are correct - I kept shuffling the workers around for so long that I did not eventually realize Jason was there sort of "unnecessarily" (it took me quite some time to figure out the correct, "effective" sequence. Agreed - Jason can be better used in the Dye Fields area. Plans updated accordingly.

Originally posted by Kloreep
Legopolis (21): Yes, goldrush the Colosseum and switch back to a Cathedral. However, that timeline won't quite work for growth, as we had only one surplus food in Legopolis this turn. (Should've adjusted it last turn. ) To grow in 4 turns (3 turns counting from 117), we need to switch the citizens on both hills NE-E and NE and put them on grasses S and SE. This will produce 3 food and 12 shields. Next turn, we switch one laborer back to a hill, producing 13 spt (25 shields total). Growth should provide the needed 15 shields, especially if we set the governor to emphasize production.

Oh, damn... one oversought food and the plan is gone... But your fix should work nicely, Kloreep! Plans corrected.

[vondrack]

Small changes to the posted plans:

a) new Jackson horse and Forkman moved to the Jackson-D.F. white camp and fortified there. Can now be immediately moved to and fortified in Jackson or Dye Fields.
b) Farmerville labourer reassigned from grass SE to the forrest, governor set to emphasize production - hopefully, our next worker will be ready on the very next turn, as the 2 extra shields from the mined desert should add up to +6spt, which is all we need to finish the worker there.

Observations:
I. Salamanca dropped from pop 2 to pop 1 (means no wonder prebuild there until Turn 117)


Plans for 210BC (Turn 118):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to move S-S-SE

2) Angus to disembark E

3) Gaul to board G.B. (W)

4) Dycedarg to board G.B. (W)

5) Misty to sentry
controlling The Sandbox, making sure no barbs from the Northern Mountains reach our core area

6) MightyMerc to move SW and fortify in Karina

7) G.G. to sentry
becoming the first part of our early warning galley screen

8) DyeHard to move NE, back to the civilized lands

9) Silver to kill the barb warrior S

10) Troy to skip turn, healing
will go to check the valley along the western coast then

11) settler+Beta+Howard to move W

12) Conan to skip turn
waiting for the upgrade (read: waiting for more money)

13) new Panama horse to be named 'Arthur' and moved SE-SE-SE-SE-S-SE
(heading for the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp site)


Worker Movement/Actions

14) Rover to move SE, then mine
15) Farmer to move SE, then mine

16) Jason Jr. to mine

17) Robbie to move NW-NW-NW, then road, then join Legopolis

18) new Jackson worker to be named 'Johan Sebastian' and moved SW-W, then road, then join Legopolis
obviously, to build the Bach's Cathedral in Legopolis, we will need Johan Sebastian (Bach) to direct the operations... thus the name change from 'Richard' to 'Johan Sebastian'

19) Forrest to road, then mine

20) Jack to road

21) Jinxo to road

22) new Farmerville worker to be named 'Gus' and moved NW
teaming up with Stanley - will help him road in 1 turn and then N, N-N-N, and mine the Rich Peak


City Management

23) reassign Legopolis labourer from the fully improved riverbank grassland SE to the fully improved hill NE of the city

The timeline:

T117: 120S in bank, +12 spt, 13F in bank, +3fpt
T118: 132S in bank, +13spt, 16F in bank, +2fpt
(reassigning one grass labourer back to a hill)
T119: 145S in bank, (13+ at least 2)spt - thanks to the pop growth, 18F in bank, +2 fpt
T120: cathedral hopefully finished, Legopolis grows to pop 7; we add 2 workers and start a wonder

24) Jackson to start building a horseman

25) reassign Farmerville labourer from the forest to the fully improved grass SE of the city
better commerce, no shield output difference (will swap back on the next turn - seems we have found the "balanced" state for Farmerville, allowing it to build a new worker every two turns)

26) new Forkmouth citizen to become a taxman

27) reassign Forkmouth labourer to work the floodplains instead of the roaded grassland
faster growth, same commerce

[vondrack]

Did the WF shuffling exercise again (Turn 118):

Maxxing out our commerce yields a GNP of 217 - still #2. This is only 10% more than our real commerce - great efficiency!

Maxxing out shields yielded Mfg. Goods of 92 - still #2. Normally, our Mfg. Goods is 74 (20% less).

Maxxing out productivity yielded a total of 255 - still #2. This is only 5 more than our real productivity - great!

Now, looking for #3s:

#3 in Mfg. Goods has 55 megatons (19 less than we do -more than 25% less); change +1
#3 in GNP/commerce has 129 million (66 less than we do - that's less than 2/3 of our GNP!); change: -4
#3 in Productivity has 177 (73 less than we do - that's about 70% of our productivity)

Our military is weak vs. GS, strong vs. Vox, average vs. everybody else. Ligurian tribes reported nr Logville.

[Tiberius]

I may be missing something, but why was that urgent to rush the Cathedral in Legopolis? We have no-Sistine clauses with everybody except Spain, who we agreed that don't really have chances to build a wonder before us. The rush was quite expensive and I'm not sure that we couldn't have waited 2 or 3 more turns.

Edit: I know this is already too late for this question, so I expect an answer only to satisfy my curiosity.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
I may be missing something, but why was that urgent to rush the Cathedral in Legopolis? We have no-Sistine clauses with everybody except Spain, who we agreed that don't really have chances to build a wonder before us. The rush was quite expensive and I'm not sure that we couldn't have waited 2 or 3 more turns.

Edit: I know this is already too late for this question, so I expect an answer only to satisfy my curiosity.

The true reason for partially rushing the cathedral build in Legopolis is that we would like to build TWO wonders in Legopolis now - first, the Bach's Cathedral, second, the Sistine's Chapel. That will make us independent on the imported luxuries (and it is very likely that when the "assault at Fortress Legoland" happens, we will be lux-embargoed by everybody or almost everybody).

Thanks to our deals with other teams, the Sistine's is "almost safe" and can be (taking a reasonable risk) built later - the only team we will have to watch for wonder building activities will be Spain/RPers... and who knows, we may be able to get that clause later on...). RPers are definitely unable to beat us to the FIRST 600-shield wonder (which will probably be the Bach's for us). However, they might be able to beat us to the SECOND 600-shield wonder (which we assume will be the Sistine's for us), if they wanted to and tried hard. For this second wonder, we will need every single turn to be faster than them (if they really decide to go for the Sistine's, that is... which is unlikely, but not totally impossible).

Partially rushing the cathedral speeded up its completion by 3 turns. Legopolis will spend these three saved turns at pop 9, producing at least 20 shields per turn. That's at least 60 shields total - 10% of the total wonder shield cost. Considering we have no pressing need for gold, effectively "buying" 10% of the wonder for 232 gold sounds like a good deal.

Plus, this also means we will finish the happiness wonder 3 turns earlier - and since Bach's Cathedral makes two unhappy citizens content in every city, all our cities will be able to grow beyond pop ~6 these three turns earlier... which means further benefits, though their quantification would be difficult ATM.

The reason for building the Bach's Cathedral first is that it decreases the number of unhappy citizens in every city with no other prerequisites - unlike the Sistine's Chapel that needs a 160-shield cathedral to affect the city in question.

Personally, if we had to choose between the Sistine's and Bach's, I would prefer Bach's... though having both is what we should try VERY hard to get. With both of them, our cities with a temple and cathedral will be able to operate at pop 4+1+1+3+3+2=14! (base, dyes, temple, cathedral, Sistine's, Bach's). Add a colosseum, and it's 16. For most of our cities, this means working all fine tiles.

[Sharpe]

No, I don't agree with this. We should get Sistine out of the way first, especially if RP is building it (yes I know we will beat them to it regardless).

As for Bach, I don't think we will get the chance to build it as I suspect some other team, especially one on Bob will try to get it first. As it is we are having to race RP for Sistine. If by some unusual situation RP does beat us to Sistine, then we can feel free to switch to Bach.

Plus as I have been saying frequently the other civs will regard the building of Bach as fulfillment of the "no-Sistine clause". And most of all, the other civs WON'T allow us to have both happiness wonders. In the MP games that I have played (admittedly Civ 2), Bach and Michelangelo/Sistine Chapel were rarely built by the same civ and when they were, each time that civ was targeted for extermination by all the other civs.

Besides, there are other very necessary things we have to build aside from happiness wonders - as well we do have a monopoly on dyes that we can trade for other luxuries too.

That being said, let's drop this argument for now and simply refer the Legopolis build as the "Happiness Wonder" and have a vote on it as its completion date nears. Frankly, I don't want to have arguments back and forth for the next month or so until it is done.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack
Partially rushing the cathedral speeded up its completion by 3 turns. Legopolis will spend these three saved turns at pop 9, producing at least 20 shields per turn. That's at least 60 shields total - 10% of the total wonder shield cost. Considering we have no pressing need for gold, effectively "buying" 10% of the wonder for 232 gold sounds like a good deal.

Plus, this also means we will finish the happiness wonder 3 turns earlier - and since Bach's Cathedral makes two unhappy citizens content in every city, all our cities will be able to grow beyond pop ~6 these three turns earlier... which means further benefits, though their quantification would be difficult ATM.

Thinking at the rush from this POV makes it indeed look good. 10% from the total wonder build cost for 230 gold is a good deal. Plus the 3 turns we would gain for growing our cities is a nice bonus (so yes, I agree building the Bach's first, especially because the Sistine is almost secured; but then, we have enough time for thid debate).

[vondrack]

Plans for 190BC (Turn 119):


Unit Movement/Actions

1) G.B. to move NW-N-N, then N-N-NW
carrying reinforcements/barbhunters to Legos Minor

2) Angus to skip turn, waiting for upgrade

3) DyeHard to move NW-W (will guard the two workers)

4) Alexander to move W-S, then S, then sentry
making sure the worker chopping the forest near Logville will not be slain by a barb horse coming from the FoW

5) Silver to sack the barb camp SE-SE

6) Archibald to move NE-E, then NE
lifting up the last bit of FoW in our "interior" - a barb camp THERE would be more of a nuisance than convenient cash opportunity... let's farm in the South only

7) Troy to moved S-SE, looking for barb camps

8) Howard to attack the barb warrior NW

9) settler+Beta to move NW

10) Conan to skip turn, waiting for the upgrade

11) Arthur to move S-S-S-S-SE-S
(heading for the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp site)


Worker Movement/Actions

12) Rover to mine
13) Farmer to mine

14) Robbie to road, then join Legopolis
15) Johan Sebastian to road, then join Legopolis

16) Charlie to road

17) Stanley to road
18) Gus to road

19) Jimbo to move NE-NE-N, then NW & mine
helping Ken, getting in sync with him (will be able to either mine & road the "overlap" hill between Tarzania & Zargonia or clear that jungle tile, which is preventing the "military" road the between the Tarzania-Zargonia white camp site and Tarzania from being built fast

20) new Logville worker to be named 'Luke' and moved W, then SW, then chop forrest


City Management

21) Legopolis WF to stay as is

The timeline:

T118: 132S in bank, +13spt, 16F in bank, +2fpt
T119: 145S in bank, (13+ at least 2)spt - thanks to the pop growth, 18F in bank, +2 fpt
T120: cathedral hopefully finished, Legopolis grows to pop 7; we add 2 workers and start a wonder

22) Jackson (new) labourer to work coast
(should have worked coast this turn already ...)

23) reassign Farmerville labourer from the fully improved grass SE to the forest E-SE of the city
usual WF shuffling, allows building workers in two turns in Farmeville... (as the two shields from the forest help to have both the extra shields we get from the mined desert thanks to the new pop point unwasted)

23a) reassign the new Dye Fields labourer from the hill to a coast
the shield is wasted anyway, so let's get more commerce

24) new Zargonia labourer to work the hill being mined (SW of the city)

24a) reassign Karina labourers from the unimproved riverbank plains to the riverbank hills under improvement
Kloreep is right - we will be switching these anyway, so why not do it now and avoid any oversights in the future

25) Logville to start building a settler and work wheat NW, roaded riverbank grass W, and two coasts

26) Sharpehaven labourer to be reassigned from the roaded grassland S to a coast NW of the city
same growth, more commerce

27) Kloreepville labourer to be reassigned from the irrigated grassland E to the mined hill NE
same growth, much more production

28) knock the research slider down a notch
Edu still in 2 turns, so let's save some cash...

[Kloreep]

Also add: Move Karina citizens on plains E and SE to hills SE-S and SE-E. (Needs to be done soon, might as well do it now; there's no change till they're mined, though.)