Next turn plans up to 50AD

[lmtoops]

Double Post

[lmtoops]

Yes, you have help and I thank you for the explaination.

How do you know that we inherited a 2-turn pearl from Zargon? What if inherited a 4-turn pearl?

I know that these questions are off-topic; so please give your best shot at answering and then I'll be done with it.

[vondrack]

Well, me and ZargonX inherited the same pearl from BetaHound/Voxes - we both receive the same save from them (with the same seed). I "test"-played it to see what the anarchy period would be, but trashed the resulting savegame (did not create any, in fact), just reported what we are to expect.

Then ZargonX played it "officially" (from the same pearl) - getting naturally the same result: 2-turn anarchy (the pRNG output is used to determine the length of the anarchy, not to determine if the anarchy is going to end or not - that's why know for sure, how long it is going to be).

And if you mean "How do you know how long will the anarchy last?" - well, the F1 domestic advisor says that after you start the revolution (sometimes you need to click several times on "More" to get her line on the anarchy period length). She says "in about X turns", but the number is precise.

Feel free to ask questions like this, any time... actually, I believe this is what makes the "demogames" so useful and great to participate in - you learn things you haven't known before.

I myself have learnt tons of tricks and other info I had no idea about before...

[Kloreep]

Sorry I didn't post on the last turn; poly going down + new Babylon 5 DVDs to watch led me to not even think of it till morning, and I had to stumble to bed at that point. I only would have put in an order for a Legopolis entertainer anyway.

MB Plans for 410 :

Red Bricks to start working on a marketplace
Dye Fields to start building a Library
Logville to start building a Worker
Sharpehaven to start building a Barracks

Settler S (then found Kloreepville)
Logger NW and mine
Rover N-N-NE (then mine; Karina will be at its highest allowable pre-turn 125 pop once out of anarchy. We will want to be working hills, not grass.)

Legopolis will be in disorder (I assume no entertainer was used last turn, as it is not listed in the chronicle); pull a citizen off a hill to restore order.
New Farmerville citizen should be an entertainer; make sure to move the citizen on desert onto the river grass being mined. Change build to a worker; we'll need to efficiently get rid of pop to keep the peace in Farmerville, and the south needs workers, especially Karina. Perfect fit.

Also, I know I still need to run the Legopolis sim; I'll get on that.

[lmtoops]

Now I understand, perfectly.

Also, I didn't know the advisor gave out that information.

Thanks

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Kloreep
I only would have put in an order for a Legopolis entertainer anyway.

Legopolis will be in disorder (I assume no entertainer was used last turn, as it is not listed in the chronicle); pull a citizen off a hill to restore order.

Also, I know I still need to run the Legopolis sim; I'll get on that.

Hm, this is strange - I did post about the need to use one Legopolis citizen as a specialist (not necessarily an entertainer, though - a tax collector will do just as fine, while bringing in 1gpt). Zargon, did you forget to change one Legopolis citizen into a tax collector or did you forget to mention it in the chronicle?

[ZargonX]

Nope, sorry, missed that in the turn orders. However, no worries, as one turn of disorder will cause no harm. Improvements can only be destroyed if you let disorder rampage for more than one turn, which I certainly won't let happen.

[ZargonX]

Plans for 410 BC

Military

1)DyeHard S-SW-S
2)Silver NE-NE
3)Troy S-S to find the barb camp
4)GG S-S-S
5)GB E-E-SE
6)Marky Merc unload
7)Angus board
8)Howard W
9)Forkman N-NE
10)Dycedarg NW-W
11)Mercules W-W-W

Domestic

12)Red Bricks to start working on a marketplace
13)Dye Fields to start building a Library
14)Logville to start building a Worker
15)Sharpehaven to start building a Barracks
16)Settler S (then found Kloreepville)
17)Logger NW and mine
18)Rover N-N-NE as per Kloreep's suggestion

Legopolis will be in unrest, so assign an entertainer.

Other than that, enjoy sweet anarchy

[vondrack]

Originally posted by ZargonX
2)Silver NE-NE

This must be an error. Silver could move only one tile in the NE direction - if he wanted to move there, that is... I suggest moving him E-E, then SE, to take over Conan's role of keeping an eye on our frontier SE of Logville, letting Conan go to be upgraded in Forkmouth.

EDIT: Uhhhh... scrap this... I missed that our President changed the order of our Military Architect without noting it anywhere, but the Chronicle, and left our horsie vulnerable out in the open grassland... However, I still respectfully ask to move Silver E-E and sentry him there

Originally posted by ZargonX
4)GG S-S-S

Let's continue mapping of as much water around our landmass as possible - SW-S-E, then SW-SW-SE, then S-S-E

Originally posted by ZargonX
8)Howard W

I do not think it is worth delaying the camp attack by 1 turn only to increase Howard's effective defense of 3.3 to 4.4. No barb will ever have a chance of killing him (plus, we WANT barbs to fight Howard - we are here to get some promotions, too), so let's hurry for the (known) camp site: NW, NW, N, N.

Add:

Merc Twain to move NW-N-W, then N to Sharpehaven and fortify there

Legopolis will be in unrest, so assign an entertainer.

Not an entertainer (that would be an overkill) - TAX COLLECTOR!

Add:

new Farmerville labourer to be made an entertainer (or a tax collector, if not needed to keep the city happy enough), existing labourer to be reassigned from the desert to the riverbank grass being mined.
as per Kloreep's request

Also, I would strongly suggest Marketplace instead of a Library in Dye Fields - as we are nowhere near to lagging behind in research, we should focus on building gold generating city improvements before gold eating (though science generating) city improvements first.

And one last idea (IMPORTANT!):

I believe it would be wiser to send Rover N-N-NW and start a forest chop. Once this forest chop is done, which would be ~5t into the Republic, we goldrush the rest of the Courthouse immediately for ~260g) and start the FP in Karina. This forest chop is important, as it effectively saves us 40g - we should not goldrush the Courthouse prior to finishing it. OTOH, I think we want to start our FP in Karina ASAP... and the ironhill mine would not be even finished by the time chop would be over and Karina ready to go for FP...

[ZargonX]

EDIT: Uhhhh... scrap this... I missed that our President changed the order of our Military Architect without noting it anywhere, but the Chronicle, and left our horsie vulnerable out in the open grassland... However, I still respectfully ask to move Silver E-E and sentry him there

Actually, I think you must have mistyped your original order. I moved Silver E-E, just as it said. Don't worry, I won't overide the ministers without a good reason

As for the tax collecter vs. entertainer, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a moot point during anarchy? Once we enter our new government, a tax collector would be more useful, but I suppose it doesn't matter either way what we set it as now.

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by vondrack
new Farmerville labourer to be made an entertainer (or a tax collector, if not needed to keep the city happy enough), existing labourer to be reassigned from the desert to the riverbank grass being mined.
as per Kloreep's request

Yes, please add this. Also, please change Farmerville's build to a worker as well.

Originally posted by vondrack
Also, I would strongly suggest Marketplace instead of a Library in Dye Fields - as we are nowhere near to lagging behind in research, we should focus on building gold generating city improvements before gold eating (though science generating) city improvements first.

Fine with me; we don't have to decide immediately anyway.

And one last idea (IMPORTANT!):

I believe it would be wiser to send Rover N-N-NW and start a forest chop. Once this forest chop is done, which would be ~5t into the Republic, we goldrush the rest of the Courthouse immediately for ~260g) and start the FP in Karina. This forest chop is important, as it effectively saves us 40g - we should not goldrush the Courthouse prior to finishing it. OTOH, I think we want to start our FP in Karina ASAP... and the ironhill mine would not be even finished by the time chop would be over and Karina ready to go for FP...

I think we should spend the extra 50 gold or so and get Karina on the way to FPdom ASAP. We're short of workers considering all the hills that will need to be mined (the irrigated Cattle provides 4 food, perfect for working four hills at max pop 5), so this will also save some chopping time and allow us to go straight for mines.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by ZargonX
Actually, I think you must have mistyped your original order. I moved Silver E-E, just as it said. Don't worry, I won't overide the ministers without a good reason

Jesus, you are quite right!
I mistyped the order, should have been E-NE...

As for the tax collecter vs. entertainer, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a moot point during anarchy? Once we enter our new government, a tax collector would be more useful, but I suppose it doesn't matter either way what we set it as now.

And here, you are wrong! Tax collectors generate money even under anarchy! I myself have found out - to my greatest surprise - only few days ago... just try it!

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Kloreep
I think we should spend the extra 50 gold or so and get Karina on the way to FPdom ASAP. We're short of workers considering all the hills that will need to be mined (the irrigated Cattle provides 4 food, perfect for working four hills at max pop 5), so this will also save some chopping time and allow us to go straight for mines.

Well, at THIS VERY moment, we are short of workers, that is right. But once we are in Republic, I am quite sure Farmerville will replenish our worker force quite fast - it shall be able to build a new worker every two turns on long term basis.

50 gold would be a non-issue if we wanted to rush only the Courthouse in Karina. But I feel we should consider rushing - at least partially (that is: as soon as we have money to do it) - the Cathedral in Legopolis, too, as we need Legopolis to go for a wonder build ASAP - Sistine's is too precious for us (remember how close we beat GS to Pyramids!).

Correct me if I am wrong, but we will not be able to use a chop for the FP build, right? Then... chopping forest takes 5 turns and yields 10 uncorrupted shields to the current build. If you let this worker start a mine 5 turns earlier, you get the mine 5 turns earlier - the mine adds 2 spt, so it is the same 10 shields as from the forest chop, considering long-term math. Just that from the short-term PoV, you get those chopped shields 6 turns earlier (and 100% uncorrupted). I really believe we should wait these 5 turns, do that chop, and save ~50 gold on the cheaper courthouse goldrush...

Let's see what it takes to have four Karina hills (iron + the three hills SE of the city, along the river) mined ASAP (using Rover, Logger, Farmer, and one more new worker from Farmeville):

Rover: T108 moves to forest, T109-T113 chops, T114-T115 moves to hill S-SE, T116-T121 mines
Farmer: T108-T111 mines Fville, T112-T113 moves to the iron hill, T113-T118 mines
Logger: T108 moves to the hill SE-SE, T108-T114 mines
Newbie: T111-T114 moves to the hill E-SE, T115-T120 mines

So, with the chop, we have mine #1 on T114, mine #2 on T118, mine #3 on T120, and mine #4 on T121.

Now, Rover without the chop: T108 moves to iron hill, T109-T114 mines, T115-T116 moves to the hill S-SE of Karina, T117-T122 mines.

However we manage Logger and Farmer, the result is that we get those four hills mined one turn LATER than if chopping the forest and using one more Fville worker for the extra mine. And skipping the chop WHILE using the extra Fville worker gets us to 4 mined hills only 1 turn earlier. Is that worth waiving 40g?

[Kloreep]

I hadn't realized it would save so little mining time... but I was thinking mainly of starting on the FP 6 turns earlier.

Assuming we get 5 shields a turn under Republic, it would net us about 30 shields, which would save about 3 turns (production should be 10-11 shields at peak hill mining & working with a courthouse). On the other hand, 40 gold would get us 10 rushed shields for Legopolis, or an upgrade.

Also, speaking of rushing, I think we should complete the market in Legopolis, so long as we rush the Cathedral. We can make better use of the rush money by "rushing" a Colosseum early in the build, then changing to a Cathedral on the same turn and letting Legopolis complete the remaining 60 shields. This might require research to be slowed down a little to get enough money (even rushing 75 shields requires 300 gold), but I think that would be worth it.

[Kloreep]

Cursory MB plans for 390:

Choose Republic, at last!
Settler to found Kloreepville
Rover to chop
George W
If Jack finishes N-N (then mine)
WF will be done by me when I play the turn; things depend on how production, etc. is calculated when coming out of anarchy and post-republic corruption.