Team Scores

[Tiberius]

This is because the score is an average score of all the turns until now and we didn't expand in the last turns, thus our teritorry points didn't grow at all. We are still gaining points due to the increased population.

[vondrack]

Yeah, guys, take the score with a grain of salt. It says absolutely nothing about how well a civ is doing in the early stages of the game, since it reflects only territory and population (+culture? not sure). It does not reflect anything else, like infrastructure, possible future expansion etc... so do not panick seeing us "losing" the lead. Actually, losing the lead altogether for a moment would be a good thing, since we would be getting less attention from other teams, flying even "lower" under the radar.

Do not get mislead by the score! The less others think of us, the better our chances to succeed with our plan.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack
The less others think of us, the better our chances to succeed with our plan.

You seem to have a very close relation with your plan, Radek

Just kidding, I know it is our plan and it is a good one. After all, how else would we prove that we are builders, if not by building WONDERS of the World? Amnd when these wonders are useful too, it means that we are on the right track

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
You seem to have a very close relation with your plan, Radek

Well, yes, I do, even if it is not mine anymore... I wanted The Great Lighthouse as the other edge first... But it's now useless, so I have had to adopt "your" Pyramids...

I feel so strongly about the plan, because if we succeed, it will - IMHO - make such a HUGE difference that we will be likely to never have to care about others again... just building like mad. And if we fail, we would still not lose that much, we would basically just remain in the position we are now. Even without Pyramids, we should be able to settle our landmass in a reasonable time, plus we will get some of the missing techs from Luxes. So for me, it is an opportunity of such a low risk and high yield that I would terribly regret missing it in favour of any short term goals.

Don't get me wrong, I seriously consider every new development... pondering about if it is still wise to stick to O2E. But so far, nothing made me change my mind... I still believe we should go for it. RPers spotting our coastal waters was actually very helpful, because we were able to rule out the GLh and recognize the Pyramids, which are admittedly a wonder much more useful, as the way to go. If RPers do not have Map Making (-> no Galleys), they are no threat to us.

Then the Lux thing... in fact, I believe that this development helps us even further, lowering the risk involved, providing sort of a backup plan to use in case we miss on the Great Library (replacing it with Pyramids and scratching the other wonder or going for something less spectacular like Oracle...). Plus, we do not need to settle Legos Minor, while at the same time gaining the benefit of a relatively trustworthy neighbour...

Speaking of this "relative trustworthiness", let me explain something. Having had several lengthy chats with Trip, I guess I have been able to get some sort of a feeling about this guy. Surprisingly, he is not really cocky, if you speak directly to him. His cockiness as seen in the forums is probably just a rather weird way of having fun. He has been very reasonable and open to me, while never becoming toadyish.

That said, I seldom believe such feelings. I usually ask about incentives, about reasons, about what the other person can gain by doing this or that... and when I ask what could Trip get by backstabbing us in the future?, the answer is surprisingly... almost nothing! He is a proud person, that's correct, and he longs for being recognized (just see his efforts to become first a Consul then the SMC in the ISDG). But to allow another team to virtually "save" him, then backstabbing to make his way to the ultimate victory, would do just the opposite - he would be held in scorn, since winning in this way may be used only to prove your immorality and ruthlessness, but not your Civ3 skills. He could always be silenced by simply saying "if they hadn't saved you before, you sucker, you would never ever had a chance..."

That said, the only exception would be if we bleed him dry for providing the refuge - then, it might be sort of "justifiable" to be less than extremely grateful. But if we are generous, I am strongly convinced we will never have to worry about Luxes on Legos Minor, as the only thing that could gain Trip glory, respect, and recognition, would be a triumphal return to the Bob continent, paying back his "debts" with ND there.

And that, folks, is something we would really like to happen, won't we?

[lmtoops]

We have flat lined on the score, but that is temporary.

Meanwhile, RP is skyrocketing. Likely to do with territorial expansion. I tracking the scores as compared to the Average Turn Score. They are making a very impressive climb, at the expense of LI.

I also have a lot of confidence in Double Edge. Naturally, the first edge (GLib) is key. I'm sure a couple of other teams are eyeing this wonder. I hope we have the shields to pull this off. I recall many times the AI stealing a key wonder when I had 1 or 2 turns until completion.

The second edge is not a requirement. Pyramids would help tremendously in our expansion. We could cover Legos Major in a shorter amount of time. Therefore, sealing our right to our lands. I will get the Pyramids for sure.

[Sharpe]

Sorry guys, didn't have a chance to update the scores until now (in other words - I was too lazy too or forgot )

Now updated to 1425bc.

As Vondrack mentioned - the score is only one component of measuring a civ's power and right now it is heavily weighted towards the amount of territory that one has (then again it will be later on in the game too )

Still it is worth noticing that the score does tell us that RP is growing rapidly compared to us in the past few turns - which might mean that they may have as many or more cities than we do currently (something that we will rectify shortly ...) and did accurately forecast Lux's decline.

A current observation is that Vox is also remaining relatively stable. Now admittedly we know that they gave a city to Lux and that couldn't have helped their score, but it is interesting that GS has been keeping pace with us while Vox hasn't... might mean that GS could be becoming much more powerful than Vox. Something to keep an eye on.

[lmtoops]

Sharpe, thank you for the information. I have been doing some tracking myself.

When compared to the average round score, Vox has been on the decline for many years. While GS has been a slight improvement scale. Based on the score, GS is well ahead of Vox.

RP has definitely made up a lot of ground. they had a big jump in 1650 and their growth curve is slight better than ours. With them taking over land, this growth is expected.

GoW is holding steady after declinging for several turns. But they are still below the average. The other big losers are Lux and Vox.

Legoland is on a steady growth curve. I don't see RP overtaking us unless something dramatic occurs. I think we are safe.

GS is on a very slight growth curve, they a poor start. ND is just holding steady.

I would add the chart to this thread if I knew how (I don't think I can). If someone is interested in looking at the chart, I can email them. Or if there is any demand, I will email to Vondrack for posting.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by lmtoops
I would add the chart to this thread if I knew how (I don't think I can). If someone is interested in looking at the chart, I can email them. Or if there is any demand, I will email to Vondrack for posting.

Just email it to me, please, and I will post it. I think it will be interesting to have a look.

[vondrack]

OK, here is Leo's score chart (Leo, feel free to edit your comments in):

[Tiberius]

What is "0" in this graph?

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
What is "0" in this graph?

Not sure.. not my chart... but "0" appears to be the "average" score of all teams in a given turn, while the charted values are relative to this average.

[lmtoops]

Zero is the average score for that turn. So the formula for each point is:

(Individual Team Score on Turn X) - (Avg. Team Score on Turn X)

So the lines represent the Team Trend vs the Average Trend. Teams with an upward trend are beating the average.

One thing to remember is that for every upward trend, there must be a downward trend. For example, in about 1650 RP went up and then down, but GW went down and then up.

So did I complicate things further?

[Tiberius]

* Updated *

(I don't know why do I get the extra blank lines Must be reated to how Poly translates posts into html code)

[Sharpe]

Actually I like it the new way - much cleaner.

As for the extra lines don't worry, as we add years the table might move up and if not we can always start a new thread for the scores.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
* Updated *

(I don't know why do I get the extra blank lines Must be reated to how Poly translates posts into html code)

Tibi, you must remove all linebreaks ("enters") from the html code. The code will then be somewhat less nicely formatted and more difficult to read and add to, but the extra lines will disappear.