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Bad News - We've Been Spied Upon

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  • Bad News - We've Been Spied Upon

    OK, my dear friends, I hate to bring bad news. I am really sorry, as after reading this post you will probably taste quite some bitterness in your mouth. But after discussing the problem with Jack on the chat, we decided to let the team know first. We should discuss what happened and decide about further actions to be taken.

    I strongly urge you to keep the following information to yourself! Do not disclose it to ANYBODY. Consider it TOP SECRET for the time being. Sigh.

    The sad fact is that we have been spied upon before even playing our first turn. At least one other person (maybe one other team) most probably knows how our starting location looks like, where it is, and what password we use for our PBEM game.

    Here is the story.

    Those of you present on the hectic Sunday night will remember that we had troubles setting up our private chatroom. Sharpe tried first, but failed to protect the room (called Legoland) with a password. All of us gathered there anyway, as it was easier to chat there than in the crowded main Apolyton room.

    Later I did some mIRC research and succeeded in setting up a truly private chatroom (LegoChannel), protected with the password of "Tiberius". I went back to the "public" Legoland channel and told everybody to move to the new room, revealing the Tiberius password online. After a while, I noticed an outsider present in the "public" Legoland channel. I realized that anybody could have noticed our password to the password-protected room, rendering the whole password protection ineffective.

    I immediately told everybody about the problem, had Sharpe destroy the old, "public" Legoland chatroom and set myself up a new, password protected Legoland room, using the password of "HisBrickness". I then posted the password in a special thread in our team forum and told everybody waiting in the LegoChannel room to grab it there.

    People successfully moved over to the safe room. All of them... but one. A guy using the nickname of "nimitz". He appeared to have troubles changing rooms, so I offered him help, suggesting where to grab the new password. He apologized, saying he was an IRC newbie, and told me he was unable to get the password from the forum, since "...his Opera was broken and kept loading some cached pages, preventing him from learning the new password". I sent him the password via PM then... it did not help either, as "...his Opera got totally useless, loading just crap." Getting a bit helpess, I succeeded in opening a private IRC channel between me and this guy, telling him the HisBrickness password there. He then joined us in the private Legoland room. As far as I can remember, he did not contribute to the discussion... at least, nothing I would be able to recall.

    Three days later, I received a PM from Nimitz. He was asking me "where the chat was at". I thought he'd read the chatroom/password thread and did not realize it was referring to the Sunday night chat. I responded telling him the chat was not on anymore. I mentioned that the chatroom was not requiring the password any more... Nimitz got back telling me the chatroom would reset itself after the last member left it and offered to fix the problem. I asked him what the problem was and learned about the need to "register" the channel to prevent it from resetting.

    I noticed several members greeting Nimitz back after he fixed his computer that had crashed before. The fool I am, I was still blind to what was obvious. It's been only earlier today that I realized the problem. The nimitz from the Sunday night could not have been our Nimitz. The true Nimitz had his computer broken on Sunday and was skilled with mIRC (Nimitz later confirmed he was not online on Sunday night and was definitely not "an irc newbie").

    Well. Someone played a dirty trick on me and I foolishly let him get into our room. He had the chance to see our starting spot, our location (from the minimap) and probably learned our PBEM password.

    Sigh. What a fool I am. A naive idiot.
    But that's what happened.

    Now, I do suspect one person. Unfortunately, my suspicion is not backed with evidence very well. I do remember the nickname of the outsider I noticed in the first, "public" Legoland room just a couple of minutes after I posted the Tiberius password. But I can't be sure there was only him. There might have been someone else I did not notice.

    I guess having our location known to someone else is perhaps not a big deal. If there was someone out there determined to cheat, looking at our position, he could do it by simply loading the PBEM game using the known load bug (I do not know the exact details myself, but I know it's a public secret that the PBEM savegame is just vulnerable). It is basically a matter of honesty and integrity of the players not to use the cheap trick.

    But what happened is unfortunately a pretty strong evidence that there will be cheating in the PtW demogame. At least one dishonest person, maybe even a whole team, plays unfair.

    What do we do now?

    I will email MarkG and ask him about a copy of the Sunday chat log, should there be one available. Even though I doubt it, it may give us a better clue as to who the cheater was. We (me and Jack, whom I told all this in a private chat earlier today) will appreciate any idea that might help catching and publicly exposing the cheater.

    Once again, I urge you to consider this information strictly CLASSIFIED.

  • #2
    Oh man...

    This is almost worse than doing something illicit with the save; whoever this is (and I applaud your not revealing mere suspicions) actually deceived you, and the entire team as well.

    I'm not sure what we should do. Without even knowing which team what team "nimitz" was from, much less who it actually was, I don't see much point in reporting this to the public forum. But we can't just let it slip.

    Does the apolyton IRC server keep logs? If so, MarkG might be able to get an IP address. From there, the forum IPs of suspects could be checked. It wouldn't give us complete proof, but it would let us prove people innocent.

    Just to make sure "nimitz" was the only false chatter, I suggest anyone who was at the chat that night post here. I was at the chat, and while I was gone at some points, I don't think I ever logged off, so I doubt anyone could have impersonated me.

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    • #3
      Actually, there is one reason to report it to the forum: to make sure teams don't share around the saves. Unless it's a team leader or a whole team cheating, this will prevent knowledge of our password from being exploited. (I think we should wait for MarkG's answer, though.)

      I'm going to see if I can get the IP addresses of everyone who accessed the starting spot screenshot. Don't know if it'll help, but it's worth a try.

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      • #4
        I was here, even if it was for a very short while. I'm sorry, I don't have any ideas on how to manage this
        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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        • #5
          I have just emailed MarkG, asking for help. Hopefully, the IRC server keeps some sort of a log that might help us determine who the cheater was.

          Just one minor detail: "nimitz" really did not contribute to the discussion in the final chatrrom with a single word (just checked it with the log Kloreep recorded).

          The strange thing is that there is no record of "nimitz" leaving the room... he joined before Kloreep started recording the log, that is for sure. But I have no idea whether he left before the log was started or after Kloreep stopped logging. Does anyone remember noticing nimitz's nick in the list of members present?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kloreep
            I'm going to see if I can get the IP addresses of everyone who accessed the starting spot screenshot. Don't know if it'll help, but it's worth a try.
            EXCELLENT idea, Kloreep. That would be extremely helpful. I guess that would be all we'd need to identify the intruder (in cooperation with MarkG).

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            • #7
              well vondrack, I think we can find out who the person was tht spied on us. I am very hopefull. At least we can catch the guy who did this to us.
              Donate to the American Red Cross.
              Computer Science or Engineering Student? Compete in the Microsoft Imagine Cup today!.

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              • #8
                This is completedly outrageous!

                Possible cheating by someone even before the game has started!

                Don't feel bad, Vondrack, someone has deliberately impersonated one of our team members, how were you to know it wasn't Nimitz.

                Although there is the possibility that it is someone not associated with the game, I HIGHLY DOUBT that is the case.

                What we seem to have here, is that someone has deliberately impersonated one of our members and having requested received the password to our chatroom. This is first degree cheating!

                If the false "Nimitz" had our last password, he/she has access to a lot of our early strategy discussions and detailed discussions of our map situation at least...

                We should find out if we can find out who this false "Nimitz" is from MarkG .

                Perhaps we should inform the other teams of this situation. If someone confesses, that person should be banned from the game (and if the rest of his team was involved in this cheating or has benefited from this info - the whole team should be removed) I suspect that many of the other teams would be as outraged as we are about being cheated on.

                If the person does not reveal themselves, and MarkG is able to identify them... this may be harsh, but we should perhaps request a PERMABAN from apolyton or at least a very very long banning to Mingpulaco.

                Well, there's my rant for the week
                Last edited by Sharpe; December 5, 2002, 23:24.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I find the whole situation pretty offensive. That someone was that willing to deceive us for what is, in all honesty, fairly little information, speaks pretty sadly about whomever it was.

                  Sharpe may be right in alerting the other teams; it might have happened to some of them, too. Perhaps they might even have some information that will help us focus in on the culprit. And, if this really turned out to be a team effort, rather than just an individual, that team should definately be removed from the game.

                  And hey, I think the real Nimitz should get some justice in all of this!
                  I make movies. Come check 'em out.

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                  • #10
                    Guys, I do understand your anger, I really do. Remember it was me who had the trick played upon him, so I take this VERY personally. I just HATE it when someone misuses my good will and help.

                    But just keep everything to yourself for now, PLEASE. Letting other teams know without proper evidence might totally destroy the credibility of the whole demogame. Just imagine the neverending flamewars about cheating vs. construing false accusations etc.

                    Even though I am hardly as optimistic as Jack, we shall still give it a try. If there is a rotten apple, let's try to find it. If there is a rotten apple-tree, let's root it out.

                    Note: commenting the Kloreep's call for "hands up" for those that were online on Sunday, I believe "nimitz" was the only false one. Everybody else on that night was able to grab the password from our private forum. Thus, I assume we are safe here.

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                    • #11
                      No, no, you're right Vondrack. I wouldn't go to the other teams until we have at least conferred with MarkG about the situation. Like you said, we don't want this to degrade into a flamewar.
                      I make movies. Come check 'em out.

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                      • #12
                        I would like to let everyone know that we will sometime in the furture contact other teams about this. But for now like everyone has said please do not say anything. We are waiting for the right time and place to do it and we are in contact with MarkG. So again wait for now, do not I repeat do not tell anyone about this.
                        Donate to the American Red Cross.
                        Computer Science or Engineering Student? Compete in the Microsoft Imagine Cup today!.

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                        • #13
                          BTW, even if this problem is big, I'd ask not to forget the focus on the game. It's our turn to play as per this thread, so I'd ask Radeck or Jack to play it and forward it ASAP. Despite these events tha game must go on
                          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                          • #14
                            I wasn't at the chat, if this helps. I was only once in the chatroom, and only for one minute because nobody was there.
                            "The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
                            --George Bernard Shaw
                            A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
                            --Woody Allen

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                            • #15
                              I have a full log if anyone wants it. Unfortunately I don't keep a time stamp. The nimitz that joined said a few words about not understanding IRC or something. He did quit later on.

                              If it was a mole then thats made a complete balls of the game. As said before from the minimap they will be able to guage our position relative to their own.

                              Having said that I think we will have to treat these attempts as part of the game. I can't imagine such an act was sanctioned by any team leader. They might all be bloodthirsty in game but they seem to be fairly honourable and willing to play by the rules. I can see a situation where a dissatisfied team member discloses information to another team, and thats fair enough, all part and parcel, but this sort of behaviour is unacceptable.

                              If it helps any, I'm willing to act as a security manager during the chats. If we know everyones IRC nickname and their host we should be able to see if we have intruders.
                              Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

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