The War: 1265AD

[vondrack]

BAD NEWS: The Save Is Sick

Accidentally (because of needing to reboot my computer), I have discovered that the save crashes. Loading up the save received from Vox and immediately ending the turn crashes the game.

Kloreep confirmed it crashed on his computer, too.

I am going to try doing things differently during the diplo phase, but I am not holding my breath...

[vondrack]

Whatever I do, the save crashes after hitting the end-turn button (no matter whether I choose "Save Game" or "Continue Game" then).

Legoland calling The Eye, Legoland calling The Eye! We are in trouble...

Let's hope it's the diplo bug we have run into before... unfortunately, I cannot recall what exactly was the problem back then...

[vondrack]

Alright. I have had this finished just when I ran into that crashing problem... anyway, whatever the fix (even if it means replaying the turn), we are going to face the same situation again.

Considering the posts above, I believe our plan for the opening part of this turn should be simple.

1) Use as much artillery as necessary to take at least 1hp off of all landed GoW infantries. There are 42 of them - and we have 62 arty pieces. It will be close and we may even not make it - but even then, hopefully, there should only be few 4/4 GoW infantries left, so I would still proceed... if we have any arty left and the GoW infantry escort is "gone", we save the remaining arty for later (i.e. we do not bombard the tanks).

2) ...irrespective of whether the arty succeeds in fully neutralizing the GoW infantry escort or not, we send in our tanks. Attack from N-NW of Dye Fields (so that the counter-fort covers one dyes tile against bombing). Use only the first attacks, save the second ones, to maintain at least some flexibility.

Odds:

4/4 Lego tank vs. 4/4 GoW tank ... 79.2% to win
3/4 Lego tank vs. 4/4 GoW tank ... 63.7% to win (that's when a GoW artillery hits our tank with its defensive bombardment)
4/4 Lego tank vs. 3/4 GoW infantry ... 81.0% to win
3/4 Lego tank vs. 3/4 GoW infantry ... 66.9% to win
3/4 Lego tank vs. 4/4 GoW marine ... 75.8% to win

2/4 Lego tank vs. 4/4 GoW marine ... 54.4% to win
2/4 Lego tank vs. 3/4 GoW infantry ... 46.2% to win

GoW has 27 arty pieces - so whatever results, after attacking all their tanks (16) and 11 of their infantries, the remaining attacks will not be met with the defensive bombardment.

If we are able to crack through the infantry escort, which I hope for, I would keep attacking as long as we have 3+/x tanks - our 3/x tank (i.e. one that has won his first attack losing only 1hp) has decent 2:1 chances of winning and being promoted to elite against a 3/4 infantry (and theoretically, cool 3:1 against a 4/4 marine - if we get to attack them, that is, which is not likely, though). Well worth trying, methinks.

But I would stop attacking after we run out of 3/x tanks. While 3/x tanks have decent chances of success, with 2/x tanks, it's basically a rouge-noir roulette... I believe we better save those tanks, heal them, and use them again as 4/4 two turns later (we may even live that long! ).

[lmtoops]

Your order of attack makes perfect sense. You came up with the same conclusions as I (and probably many others).

I would favor abandoning Tipperary. I think they will not be fooled and will take the city and establish a foot hold on our continent. With the foothold established, they could transport their current stack to the city, and we would be hard pressed to crack the defenses of Tipperary.

Let's build a few more settlers for future fort cities. I think we only have 1 settler, right now.

[lmtoops]

I also was wondering about the best use of our obsolete units. They have three basic functions: pillage, cannon fauder, and rush building.

I would like to rush build more tanks, but we are running short of pillaging units. Destroying Tipperary means that we only need 9 pillagers for this turn, which leaves a max. of 8 units for rush building.

Of course, next turn we might need more than 9 pillaging units. So that's the crux of the problem, how many units do we sacrifice for fresh verteran tanks? I think we need to build as many 1-turn tanks/infantry as possible.
If we need more pillagers next turn, than we can deal with it then, such as using 2/4 tanks.

[vondrack]

Agreed with your thoughts on obsolete units, Leo. I will probably suggest to slow the tank production a little bit, using only cities that can build 1-t vet tanks using just a single cavalry/horse disband. Those that need two of them will have to switch to 2t production or use more shortrush gold (to make do with just a single disbanded cavalry).

I haven't posted more detailed production plans yet, since much will depend on the result of our counterattack on the East Coast.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Don't forget that we can also bomb the GoW stack with out battleships from Jackson. That's two more possible extra hits.
Or maybe it'd be better to go out, kill 2 DDs, and go back in Jackson??

This is actually an interesting thought, which hasn't occured to me. It might be a good idea to use our BBs to bomb the stack - either our land-based artillery is unable to shoot through all that infantry and the BBs can make life easier for a tank or two... or we "save" 1-2 arty pieces for duties elsewhere (Abilene could use as many as possible, both for bombardment this turn and for defensive bombardment during the inevitable GS attack).

Originally posted by Tiberius
Plus, those tanks that attacked once and didn't suffer more than one HP damage, can attack again once that the artillery cover is gone.

Agreed, that's what I was assuming. We first use all first attacks, but if things go well or at least so-so, we keep attacking until we run out of 3/x tanks.

Originally posted by Tiberius
I think we have good chances to completely wipe out the GoW tank brigade and maybe even some infantries. Attacking GoW infantries really depends on how many tanks we want to keep undamaged to strenghten our defences (that if our initial attacks go well, that is).

If we abandon Tipperary, we can safely assume we will need no tanks to bolster our defenses. The infantry numbers posted earlier in this thread are what I consider really safe to hold everything we need to hold.

Originally posted by Tiberius
We should also keep some workers on dye tiles, just in case. GoW might consider them worth for bombing.

One dye tile covered with Dye Fields, one more dye tile should be covered with the counter-fort. That leaves one dye tile to protect - I would prefer using horses to workers, since even losing that tile for a single turn would mess our luxury situation.

[vondrack]

And one more unconventional thought...

Operation Forest Bump

GS may chose to not attack Abilene this coming turn, but move to where our fort is now (sure we pillage it, but that's not the point).

The problem would be that their überstack would be threatening Q.M. and Abilene at the same time next turn - and that was something we were desperately trying to prevent. If GoW lands all their remaining tanks next turn (and that's what I would do, being them), we will be screwed.

So... I suggest a rather unusual way of keeping Q.M. safe.

Let's plant forest SW of Q.M. and cut the road there

Three workers needed to do that in a single turn. They will be easy grabs if GS sends a tank... but then, such a tank would be an easy kill for us next turn. If GS sends more than a single tank to grab the workers (to be able to rebuild the road), they will have to split their forces, leaving infantry cover behind, exposing their valuable tank forces (we should be able to shoot through those 12 MIs, should they use them to escort the tanks).

What does this accomplish? Well, a forest stops a 2-mover just like a hill does. So even if the GS überstack moved E or NE, Q.M. would remain safe from it.

I'd use the same tactics around Legopolis and Red Bricks, preemptively planting forests SE & 3xSE of Legopolis and E-NE-NE of Red Bricks (though I would leave roads intact there). The lost food is not an issue, and there would be no lost production.

[Kloreep]

Planting forests is good.

BTW, another use of obselete units that occurs to me is placing them in unoccupied cities like Legopolis that are in range of GoW bombers. I believe this should cut the chances of their destroying pop and buildings in half so long as there are HPed units, as half of the time bombardment targets units.

[rendelnep]

hurray for eco-combat!!! thats one to hit the headlines (later)

[vondrack]

Could be something about ents helping us out...

[vondrack]

After checking that the save was really ok again (thanks Trip & Gramphos! - you've got our undying gratitude!), I went on to put a detailed plan of our attack together – to be honest, I welcomed the delay caused by the crashing save this time, since the last few days were truly hectic business-wise for me (and today I've spent the whole afternoon fixing the new computer of my father-in-law-to-be... can anyone say a faulty RAM module? ...).

However, after spending more than an hour putting things together, I realized that I was just repeating what was already posted – no new ideas, just trying to not forget anything... but we did not forget anything, at least as far as I was able to see. Re-reading the plan of attack I had ready to post, I saw it was exactly what we agreed upon.

So... I decided to go ahead and play it, so that we could move on (a lot of other plans actually depended on the outcome of this major attack). I am almost deaf from all that blasting... and getting sleepy, since it’s late here... but here is the battle report (someone be so kind and try replaying it to make sure everything is correct). I am so tired that I am not completely sure if it’s a success or not – probably it is (even got a GL!), but my head is spinning a bit, unable to put any reasonable analysis together. So... just the boring battle log here:

First, a minor change to the already posted turn log – Trip fixed the save Voxes replayed. In this replayed save, Voxes did not send their world map, so I was obviously not able to accept it.

And now the battle:

29) H.B.S. Dye Fields (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
30) H.B.S. Red Bricks (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
31) 53rd Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
32) 54th Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
33) 55th Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
34) 56th Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
35) 57th Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
36) 58th Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
37) 59th Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
38) 60th Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
39) 61st Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
40) 62nd Artillery (in Jackson) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
41) 38th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
42) 39th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
43) 40th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
44) 41st Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
45) 42nd Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
46) 43rd Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
47) 44th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
48) 45th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
49) 46th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
50) 47th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
51) 48th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
52) 49th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
53) 50th Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
54) 51st Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
55) 52nd Artillery (in Dye Fields) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
56) all artillery pieces from Forkmouth moved to N-NW of Dye Fields
57) 1st Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
58) 2nd Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
59) 3rd Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
60) 4th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
61) 5th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
62) 6th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
63) 7th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
64) all artillery pieces from Quanto Mechanico moved to N-NW of Dye Fields
65) 8th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
66) 9th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
67) 10th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
68) 11th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
69) 12th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
70) 13th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
71) 14th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
72) 15th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
73) 16th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
74) 17th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
75) all artillery pieces from the fortress N-N of Abilene moved to N-NW of Dye Fields
76) 18th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
77) 19th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
78) 20th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
79) 21st Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
80) 22nd Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
81) 23rd Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
82) 24th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; missed
83) 25th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
84) 26th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 2hp
85) 27th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
86) 28th Artillery moved from Abilene to N-NW of Dye Fields
87) 28th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp
88) 29th Artillery moved from Abilene to N-NW of Dye Fields
89) 29th Artillery (N-NW of D.F.) bombs 4/4 GoW infantry; hit for 1hp

90) all tanks (1st through 10th) moved from Forkmouth to N-NW of Dye Fields
91) 1st Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 3/4
92) 2nd Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment misses our tank, GoW tank wins with 1/4
93) 3rd Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 3/4
94) 4th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 3/4 and promotes to 4/5 elite
95) 5th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 2/4
96) 6th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 2/4
97) 7th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 2/4
98) 8th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 2/4
99) 9th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 1/4
100) 10th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 1/4
101) all veteran tanks (12th through 20th) moved from Quanto Mechanico to N-NW of Dye Fields
102) 12th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, GoW tank wins with 2/4
103) 13th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, GoW tank wins with 3/4
104) 14th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, GoW tank wins with 1/4
105) 15th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 4/4
106) 16th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 2/4
107) 17th Tank Division attacks 4/4 GoW tank; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, GoW tank wins with 2/4
108) 18th Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 2/4
109) 19th Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, GoW infantry wins with 1/4 and promotes to 2/5 elite
110) 20th Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 3/4 and promotes to 4/5 elite
111) all veteran tanks (22nd through 27th and one new one) moved from Abilene to N-NW of Dye Fields
112) 22nd Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 4/4
113) 23rd Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 2/4 and promotes to 3/5 elite
114) 24th Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, GoW infantry wins with 3/4
115) 25th Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 3/4
116) 26th Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 4/4
117) 27th Tank Division attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 3/4
118) new tank (N-NW of Dye Fields) named 28th Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment misses our tank, our tank wins with 3/4
119) new tank (in Panama) named 29th Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; defensive bombardment hits our tank for 1hp, our tank wins with 2/4
120) new tank (in Kloreepville) named 30th Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 2/4
121) new tank (in Red Bricks) named 31st Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 3/4
122) new tank (in Sharpehaven) named 32nd Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 3/4
123) new tank (in Karina) named 33rd Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 2/4
124) new tank (in Ahhmyfoot) named 34th Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 2/4
125) new tank (in Horsefish) named 35th Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; GoW infantry wins with 2/4
126) new tank (in Logville) named 36th Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 2/4
127) new tank (in Tiberium) named 37th Tank Division, attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 3/4
128) 4th Tank Division (4/5) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 2/5
129) 15th Tank Division (4/4) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 1/4 and promotes to 2/5 elite
130) 20th Tank Division (4/5) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 4/5
131) 22nd Tank Division (4/4) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank withdraws at 1/4, GoW infantry left with 2/4
132) 26th Tank Division (4/4) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 3/4 and promotes to 4/5 elite
133) 1st Tank Division (3/4) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; GoW infantry wins with 1/4
134) 3rd Tank Division (3/4) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; GoW infantry wins with 2/4
135) 11nd Tank Reserve (3/3 in Quanto Mechanico) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank withdraws at 1/3, GoW infantry left with 2/4
136) 21st Tank Reserve (3/3 in Abilene) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 3/3
137) 23rd Tank Division (3/5) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 2/5 and generates a great leader (Hamilcar)
138) 25th Tank Division (3/4) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank wins with 1/4 and promotes to 2/5 elite
139) 27th Tank Division (3/4) attacks 3/4 GoW infantry; our tank withdraws at 1/4, GoW infantry left with 2/4
140) 28th Tank Division (3/4) attacks 4/4 GoW marine; our tank wins with 3/4 and promotes to 4/5 elite
141) 31st Tank Division (3/4) attacks 4/4 GoW marine; our tank wins with 2/4 and promotes to 3/5 elite
142) 32nd Tank Division (3/4) attacks 4/4 GoW marine; our tank wins with 2/4 and promotes to 3/5 elite
143) 37th Tank Division (3/4) attacks 4/4 GoW marine; GoW marine wins with 2/4 and promotes to 3/5 elite
144) 21st Tank Reserve (3/3) attacks 4/4 GoW marine; our tank wins with 2/3 and promotes to 3/4 veteran



God knows if I copied everything correctly from all those little pieces of paper... someone try replaying it, please.

Comments only after getting some sleep.

[Jon Shafer]

Any figures on the losses on each side?

[vondrack]

Bleh.

'night!

[Kloreep]

Some comments on the builds as they are in the chronicle. Don't know the disbanding schedule, but those whose schedules cannot be cut down should change thus:

Forkmouth is doing a 2-turn inf when it could be a 2-turn tank
Zargonia is doing a 1-turn Inf when it could be a 1-turn tank
Dye Fields is doing a 2-turn fighter when it could be a 2-turn tank (I know it may get bombed, but we can always change it on the fly next turn, and turn after that with F1, as needed)
Tarzania: 2-turn inf, could be 2-turn tank
Horsefish: 3-turn tank, could be infantry that would come in 2 (I assume we'll be disbanding something here though to make the tank 2)