Democracy - when, if at all?

[vondrack]

There is one thing I haven't mentioned before, simply assuming everybody felt the same about it - I would like to briefly check now...

We could, should we wish so, change our government from republic to democracy.

The cons: we would have to endure a period of anarchy, most likely 5-6 turns (but could be up to 8t), thus losing 3000+ shields and 5000+ commerce. We'd never be able to recover the loss of shields and we'd need something like 15-20t to recover the commerce losses*. We would be much more vulnerable to war weariness.

The pros: We would improve our commerce output, adding another arrow to every tile already generating one (currently, that would be about 270apt gross, our average corruption level is ~10%)*. We would also improve our corruption/waste levels - but those are quite low already: average corruption is 10%, average waste is 11-12% - and it's going to improve after we equip the remote cities with police stations.

IMHO, the cons outweight the pros so heavily that changing out government is completely out of questions.

Comments?

* this was based upon my false and ignorant assumption that democracy added ANOTHER arrow over the republic +1 arrow bonus. Kloreep and Trip have correctly pointed out in their posts that this was not the case, so we'd never recover the commerce lost in anarchy and the only con of democracy is a "lower" corruption - but our corruption is acceptably low anyway...

[ZargonX]

I would agree that changing should not be a priority issue, and will probably never happen due to the nature of the game. We just can't give up that much, because unless everyone else switched as well, we'd never make up the gap caused by anarchy. Looks like we'll be a Republic for life

[Kloreep]

Re: Democracy - when, if at all?

Originally posted by vondrack
There is one thing I haven't mentioned before, simply assuming everybody felt the same about it - I would like to briefly check now...

We could, should we wish so, change our government from republic to democracy.

The cons: we would have to endure a period of anarchy, most likely 5-6 turns (but could be up to 8t), thus losing 3000+ shields and 5000+ commerce. We'd never be able to recover the loss of shields and we'd need something like 15-20t to recover the commerce losses. We would be much more vulnerable to war weariness.

The pros: We would improve our commerce output, adding another arrow to every tile already generating one (currently, that would be about 270apt gross, our average corruption level is ~10%).

I'm confused where this is an additional benefit... we get the same bonus in Rep.

Originally posted by vondrack
We would also improve our corruption/waste levels - but those are quite low already: average corruption is 10%, average waste is 11-12% - and it's going to improve after we equip the remote cities with police stations.

I agree this isn't a big deal. In my SP experience, I never gained any significant SPT from the change, and under 50 commerce. Rep corruption is pretty similiar to Dem corruption when it comes down to it.

Also, one more con not listed: Democracy has even higher WW than Republic. If we ever strike outside Legos, which I now feel sure we will, that would be a major handicap. WW is not just a matter of having to use the lux slider... your government can topple too, leading to yet another anarchy where more thousands of shields and commerce would be wasted.

Originally posted by vondrack
IMHO, the cons outweight the pros so heavily that changing out government is completely out of questions.

Agreed.

[lmtoops]

I also agree with staying in a Republic form of goverment.

Leo

[Jon Shafer]

Re: Re: Democracy - when, if at all?

Originally posted by Kloreep
I'm confused where this is an additional benefit... we get the same bonus in Rep.

Correct.

There is a single "give commerce bonus" applied in Civ 3. Republic and Democracy are the only governments that get it, and each get it at the same magnitude (that is, Democracy doesn't get 2 extra gold per tile while Republic only gets 1 per tile).

The only real difference economically between Republic Democracy is the reduced corruption - at least, in PTW.

[vondrack]

Ah! I did not know that - I thought there was a +1apt bonus over republic, which would have a +1apt bonus over despotism/monarchy. If that's the case and there is only one bonus applied, no matter if the government is republic or democracy, then it was totally pointless to post this thread. Republic all the way, there is no doubt about that.

One can learn something new every day...

[Jon Shafer]

And to think I respected you!

[Tiberius]

So Trip, you're now helping us?

[redstar1]

Well it is necessary to get behind someone before you can stab them in the back

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Tiberius
So Trip, you're now helping us?

I help everyone... with game mechanics.

[lmtoops]

Originally posted by redstar1
Well it is necessary to get behind someone before you can stab them in the back

[Jon Shafer]

Fear not my little Legomen, my master plan will soon be unveiled...


P.S. That was probably the busiest 2 minutes the Lego forum has ever seen.

[vondrack]

Nah... you were not watching when there was real hot in here...

BTW, Trip... how many active members other teams have, if it is not secret? I am very glad that I see most people that were active a year ago still around. Me, Tibi, redstar1, ZargonX, Kloreep, Leo - even Spiffor drops in quite often now. When I post on something important, I can almost bet on that I will hear from all or at least most of them within a day or two.

Perhaps we do not have that many posts, but I hope that in terms of membership watching the forum and taking part in the decision making process, this team is doing quite well.

Regarding my obvious inability to play Civ3 properly - have you noticed I did not know the discovery of Replaceable Parts made workers work twice as fast?

[Jon Shafer]

I'd tell you, but it might let on to how much activity is (or is not) going on within the other teams. After all, when activity is up, that usually means there are more active people. And vice-versa.

[ZargonX]

Now the Eye is just toying with our fragile emotions