Foreign Affairs Consulate: Roleplay

[Hot_Enamel]

True... but I would also like to target the strongest and most dangerous teams first.
ND & Lux both have good UU's and are very close to us.

Logistically, it would be better to use RP and our forces to squeeze them out of the picture...and then take out RP at our leisure.

This assumes that RP is willing to pull their weight militarily as well....which is up for debate.

[=OttomusCeasar=]

ND gets their UU first so it would make sense to try to eliminate them first before they get their UU.

Then eliminate Lux before they get theirs.

Then take our time and kill Roleplay slowly .....................

[Aro]

Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar=
ND gets their UU first so it would make sense to try to eliminate them first before they get their UU.

Then eliminate Lux before they get theirs.

Then take our time and kill Roleplay slowly .....................

Sounds like music to me.
But be sure to be very, very slowly...

[Panzer32]

Roleplay's reply:

From adaMada (finally )

-------------------------

Panzer,
I apologize to you and your team for the late reply; it’s taken a day or two for me to sort everything out.

** NOTE: I've had to snip out all but the first few words of each paragraph of your message to make the PM within size limits, but each reply addresses the full text **

There are several things at this juncture that I think are needed to continue good relations between our two teams:

Obviously, good relations between our two teams are most important to us. We want this behind us as much as you do – any other deals are impossible while this hangs over our heads. As soon as this is behind us – with both teams having a mutual understanding and your warrior safely away from our villages and children – we can begin to work together again. Partnership between our teams can only benefit, and strife can only harm. We must understand each other now so we can reap the full benefits of cooperation.

1. We need to trade maps.

I'm afraid that my team has decided that .jpg trades (other than minimaps) are against the spirit of the game. Though I tried to convince them, they feel that minimap trades were agreed upon by all the teams as a way to speed the game up, and that the game is too close to mapmaking for full screen jpg trades to be an acceptable alternative. I'm very sorry, but it's been put to a vote, and there's little I can do about it unless the team decides otherwise. As soon as we have mapmaking, we will happily trade maps using the in-game function.

2. We need to develop trust for each other.

This has me slightly confused. Though I understand several members of our teams discussed such an agreement, I know that I personally never discussed it, and I don't believe it was ever truly agreed upon. To be very honest, we don't even have writing at this time – something we've, to my knowledge, never been misleading about. This was clearly a lapse in communication – on my part as much as anyone else's, and I apologize. Though we need to keep contact at all levels, we also need to ensure that all deals work their way through official channels, so that everyone's always clear on what is mere discussion and what is a binding agreement. Roleplay will honor any agreements it feels that is has made, but I won’t lie to my team – I can’t recall any message from myself agreeing to Writing-Horseback riding. Obviously, if one exists, you should just tell me when it was sent, and you’ll have my fullest apologizes at the lapse in my memory. If a message between our diplomatic branches doesn’t exist on the issue, then we should clarify where the miscommunication occurred, and jointly decide what constitutes a binding agreement and what does not.

3. We need to acknowledge each other's territory.

Indeed. As I've said, Roleplay currently has a very small territorial claim. It's the only ideal territory for cities that is within striking distance of our capital. Obviously, there is other land we'd like to settle at a later time, but for now, that is the extent of our claims – and as I've said, we are well on our way to having the area settled. We will later move on to other territories, but I don't see our settlers meeting each other any time soon – we've no desire to expand that far north.

To be honest, I don't see any reason why territory should be an issue between us. We have no reason to settle the upper parts of the continent, and any cities you found by us would be riddled with corruption. As far as my team is concerned, our teams have no conflict of interest in this matter – we'd even be willing to sign an agreement in this regard.

Thank you for your time, adaMada. I hope you will take these points seriously.

We take these points very seriously. As I've said before, we stand to gain nothing through needless bickering except valuable time while the other teams pull ahead.

Thanks again,
adaMada

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

This is a bunch of bunk, we already know they have more area set aside than the three northern civs combined.

Right now the most important issue is Writing. What is necessary to a trade for Writing?

[Donegeal]

No kidding this is a bunch of BS!

If ND has gone further south than our warrior and they did not say anything about a coast (only mentioned valuable resourses) then they are already at their 4 square limit they told us. We have moved s twice and if ND is further that would be a minimum of 4 squares. ND should be able to see coast!

RP IS LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH WHILE THEY SMILE AT US!!!
THEY ARE LYING TO EVERYONE ON MIDDLE-BOB!

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

They are continually caught lying to us. The only thing that matters at this point is getting Writing as they are so far ahead of us in researching this tech.

We need to get a straight answer from them on what we have to trade them for it and we need to get an officially agreed deal on the Writing trade.

ND has agreed to research Construction while we research Commerce and trade techs. Lux has agreed to research Polytheism after Mysticism and trade. THE ONLY OTHER TECHS NEEDED TO GET TO THE MEDIEVAL AGE ARE THE ONES THAT REQUIRE WRITING.

Writing is the key right now and we need to get it.

[Panzer32]

Concerning the maps:

How are we supposed to know where we are able to travel if they don't tell us where their territory is??? Stupid "I'm afraid that my team has decided that .jpg trades (other than minimaps) are against the spirit of the game"!!! Are territorial claims NOT against this so-called 'spirit' of the game??? They just don't WANT US TO FIND THEM OUT!!!!!!

As you can see, I'm pretty ticked... I hope to send a reply saying this, but without all the shouting and anger and RAGE!!!

(of course I will post it here first )

[Hot_Enamel]

DRAFT ONLY - Everything is up for discussion

To RP,

Perhaps to salvage any form of diplomatic relations between our great nations, we should make it clear as to why the GOW have taken such a strong position.

1. In our minds, we believe we had an agreement to trade techs...HBR for Writing. The GOW believe that this deal was locked in and understood by both teams. You claim that the deal was still being negotiated is complete and utter rubbish.
2. Your claim to own the southern half of the continent is considered outrageous. The GOW are cornered in the far North with two neighbours who are also expanding North. We do not claim any land other than what our cultural borders define. To expect the GOW exploration warriors to bypass territory just because your team wants to settle it many turns later is rejected by our team.
To rub salt into our wounds, we are told that the reason why you wont trade writing is because we have warriors in UNCLAIMED land....It has nothing to do on whether the deal was finalised or not...simply because you don’t wish us to explore.
3. Although we openly promote ourselves as a warmongering team, we are playing a very honourable game. We have never reneged on a deal. When we tell you our warriors are on peaceful exploration only...then they are on PEACEFUL EXPLORATION ONLY. To claim that we are going to attack workers or settlers is also direct attack on our honour. We will not do it, because we said WE WILL NOT DO IT.

In order to reestablish good relations, we have offered two solutions.
1. The trade for HBR for Writing can still occur. It is a win-win solution. Please tell us your exact reason as to why this trade cannot happen. Your second rejection of this deal has infuriated our team.
2. Our warriors will be withdrawn from the southern half of the continent if we can trade jpg maps. Another Win-Win. You get our warriors out, and our map...and we achieve our goal of mapping the continent. It seems the RP team decides what is in the "Spirit of the game" so long as it betters them. GOW believes claiming territory that is not covered by cultural expansion also "Not within the spirit of the game".

The GOW team has offered 2 win-win solutions. The RP team has offered nothing.
Perhaps it is time not for the GOW team to come up with yet another solution, but rather for the RP team to try a little harder.

The longer these issues remain unresolved, the greater the animosity between our teams.

Once again, the GOW team offers the above 2 points.
We also offer another.
We will offer the RP team our greatest treaty. The GOW team has voted NOT to offer non-aggression pacts to any team unless under special circumstances. A non-aggression pact for our war-mongering team is the most important pact we can offer.
If the HBR - Writing deal can go through, and you still refuse to provide a jpg, then the GOW will offer a non-aggression pact for as long as our warriors remain south of the jungle. This puts in writing that your team will not be touched by our warriors, and we get to finish our exploration.
As you said, "We are going to give you our map anyway when MM is available" so what does it matter if we map your territory now.

As to agreeing to swap map maps at a future date...I am afraid that the RP teams history of reneging deals has made our team wary that the RP team will not uphold their part of the deal. We will not approve this as a solution.

To finish... if once again the RP teams slaps away the hand of friendship from the GOW, then perhaps the RP can offer a solution rather than just words without promises.

[Panzer32]

1. In our minds, we believe we had an agreement to trade techs...HBR for Writing. The GOW believe that this deal was locked in and understood by both teams. You claim that the deal was still being negotiated is complete and utter rubbish.

Now, I hate to say it, but from whom did we hear that this deal was locked in? If anyone has the link, then by all means share it.

2. Your claim to own the southern half of the continent is considered outrageous. The GOW are cornered in the far North with two neighbours who are also expanding North. We do not claim any land other than what our cultural borders define. To expect the GOW exploration warriors to bypass territory just because your team wants to settle it many turns later is rejected by our team.

We still have not gotten any confirmation about the actual size (just estimates). This is why I wanted to trade .jps. Maybe if they gave us an outline of squares (blank), and indicated where their capital was, we could see where it goes on the map, and where we can move our warrior. If it is one tile bigger than they said it is, we um... get mad.

To rub salt into our wounds, we are told that the reason why you wont trade writing is because we have warriors in UNCLAIMED land....It has nothing to do on whether the deal was finalised or not...simply because you don’t wish us to explore.

I don't understand this part. when did we hear that they would not trade because of our warrior?

3. Although we openly promote ourselves as a warmongering team, we are playing a very honourable game. We have never reneged on a deal. When we tell you our warriors are on peaceful exploration only...then they are on PEACEFUL EXPLORATION ONLY. To claim that we are going to attack workers or settlers is also direct attack on our honour. We will not do it, because we said WE WILL NOT DO IT.

Of course they won't believe this, but I believe it is good.

In order to reestablish good relations, we have offered two solutions.
1. The trade for HBR for Writing can still occur. It is a win-win solution. Please tell us your exact reason as to why this trade cannot happen. Your second rejection of this deal has infuriated our team.

If the point 2 above this is correct, then they have already told us the reason.
It has enfuriated our team, but is it wise to tell them that? Would they just egg us on?

2. Our warriors will be withdrawn from the southern half of the continent if we can trade jpg maps. Another Win-Win. You get our warriors out, and our map...and we achieve our goal of mapping the continent. It seems the RP team decides what is in the "Spirit of the game" so long as it betters them. GOW believes claiming territory that is not covered by cultural expansion also "Not within the spirit of the game".

This part is good.

the rest of the thing...

We ALREADY have a nonagression pact with Roleplay. 50 whole turns of it, starting 2850bc. If someone wants to calculate until what year this is, then go ahead. I'm too lazy right now.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Togas agreed to it but also said we needed to write up something official.

Forget about the territory and all the rest of the bull**** they spout I just want Writing.

[Hot_Enamel]

Guys,

I wrote this up very early in the morning...I dont mind if we throw the entire thing out or just use parts of it.
I did it to begin the response draft.

Originally posted by Panzer32

quote:
To rub salt into our wounds, we are told that the reason why you wont trade writing is because we have warriors in UNCLAIMED land....It has nothing to do on whether the deal was finalised or not...simply because you don’t wish us to explore.

I don't understand this part. when did we hear that they would not trade because of our warrior?

I thought I read this in a PM somewhere in this thread. I reread it, and I am wrong...this cannot be used.

I forgot about the non-aggression pact we have in place already.

I also have a Question...we actually have reoffered the deal a second time right ?

[Hot_Enamel]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Forget about the territory and all the rest of the bull**** they spout I just want Writing.

We dont get Mathematics from ND for 14-15 rounds. Do we really want to generate gold this entire time ?

We need writing, so we can study something new while ND gets Math.

We can...

1. Study writing ouselves...we will finish the same time as ND
2. Continue hammering a deal with RP...but this may take many rounds...I agree with GF, we need writing now.
3. We cave in with RP, and agree to remove our warriors out if the give us writing for HBR and their world map when map making is available.
3. We cave in with RP, and agree to remove our warriors out if the give us writing for HBR. We will get their map from some other team if they wont trade it with us.
4. We do a deal with ND or Lux...(whoever can be trusted). We allow them to trade HBR for Writing with RP, on the condition they gift writing it to us. This means they will also get Writing by using our HBR.

I am thinking....we are going to waste too much study time generating gold for 14-15 rounds. It is almost worth caving into RP and agreeing to remove our warriors. We just get their map later..that is all.

However, option 4 is a chance...It depends what GF/panzer can wrangle.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

There's nothing we can do about the 14 turns, Roleplay won't finish Writing for 12 turns. Researching Writing ourselves will take 20+ turns.

All of this gold will pad our account and when we can research we can shift to 100% science and beat Roleplay to Mapmaking (which they are obviously going to go for next) then trade it to Lux and ND so that when Roleplay finishes it everyone will already have it And they have no trades available which should effectively put them 2- 5 techs behind everyone else on the continent.

Or we can always use the gold to buy Techs, or we can save it to upgrade out units.

[Panzer32]

I think NDG would be the best to broker the HBR-writing deal with roleplay.

Why don't we re-try our deal with roleplay (done 12 turns from now)? I don't know if they will accept or not, but it is worth a try, right?