Foreign Affairs Consulate: Roleplay

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
Lux wants all three of us to expand south ???

How the hell do we do that ?

We don't, ND and Lux do thus giving us more breathing room.

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
I agree with what you are saying GF.
RP should cough up their map or the NTN will explore south.

Did you discuss with Lux our expansion plans ?
We are going to start planting cities next to them very soon.

I discussed the fact that we need the space for our cities and they need to expand south or risk our teams being disadvantaged by a lack of cities.


This is one of the reason I wanted to explore. I simply show a team the part of the map that I want them to gravitate towards and off they go.

Trip showed me their map, and that horse is the only one they had access to. There is space for us to settle a city between it and Lux's capitol.

A proposal Trip and I discussed was finding the Luxury clumps (like the three Silk) and each team controlling one. Then agreeing to trade them to one another.

We already have the Wine clump. And access to a Gem resource.

There should be a Spice, Silk, Gem, and Ivory clump.

If we can lay claim to an Ivory or Silk clump we would be in a good position.

Right now I beleive Roleplay is sitting on the locations of all but the Silk and Wine clumps.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Hot_Enamel
How the hell do we do that?

By Glorious War, naturally

[Panzer32]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
My plan is this. We inform Roleplay that they can let us continue exploring unmolested OR we will give our complete map of the south and their lands to both ND, Lux, and any other civ who requests it to assist those civs in planning invasion of the south. This is a suggestion and I would like to hear others ideas and comments.

What complete map of the south? Or, are you saying that we would keep exploring anyway, if they 'molest' us?

I think there should be a third option, too. That is, we leave if they give us a favourable trade. Like, if they agree to a golden age contract, and we leave; or maybe they give us a worker or two... I just think there should be a peaceful (but profitable) alternative, since it concerns more ND and Lux, not us.

[Donegeal]

Nay... leave a GA contract out of the picture! It is a valuable comodity, even more so to RP, as they have the worst UU.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

Originally posted by Panzer32
What complete map of the south? Or, are you saying that we would keep exploring anyway, if they 'molest' us?

I think there should be a third option, too. That is, we leave if they give us a favourable trade. Like, if they agree to a golden age contract, and we leave; or maybe they give us a worker or two... I just think there should be a peaceful (but profitable) alternative, since it concerns more ND and Lux, not us.

The two things that have gone up in value now that we are playing against humans and not AI are maps and luxuries.

Roleplay is trying to hog both. I can't think of anything they can offer us that is worth giving those two up.

ND says they have a scout a next to the Spanish warrior our warrior is next to.

Originally posted by Panzer32
From AdaMada:

Also sent to GF.

He lied. He never sent anything to me.

[Panzer32]

What do people think about telling Roleplay we do not support their territory claim? We could say we will not enter their cultural boarder, but will not leave their so called 'territory'.

Personally, I think it would affect our relations with them. Again, we could agree to leave if they were to give us their world map when they can (with mapmaking).

[realpolitic]

"Sometimes the cruelest thing is to get what you want"
-Oscar Wilde

Let's let Roleplay expand for a while, expending their shields for settlers, while we do what's needed for war with them. We should take full advantage of our traits, irragating, building mines, then barracks. After we sart the war we'll need workers to build offensive roads (I don't think we should build offensive roads before wefight to defer suspicion).Nobody is likely to come to their aid, and if we inform others, they'll probably want some of the spoils.

[Hot_Enamel]

Roleplay is too far south of the continent for us to exert any kind of military pressure. We have bigger problems with ND & Lux expanding so close to us.

Our goal with RP, is to remove the fog from their territory. Get their map by trade or by exploring.

Their claim to "own" that land is a joke. Perhaps they do not understand how cramped the three other nations are in the North ?

The only peaceful solution where we would agree to return home is that we negotiate a future map trade now. Knowing their territory now makes no difference to us as we cant rush a settler to grab luxeries anyway. We could never defend the city.

Knowing their map is important for the 2nd or 3rd war of our continent.

As such, I vote we continue to explore, unless they can come up with a favourable trade where we get their map when the tech becomes available or a jpg now.
Let them make an offer.

[=OttomusCeasar=]

I say we kill'em now.

[Hot_Enamel]

From GF on the "War with Roleplay" thread

I had a chat with Togas this morning right before I left for work and they had decided not to honor the Horseback Riding for Writing deal they had previously agree to.

This means their word is nothing. Any offer to trade us their map later, after Mapmaking, is useless as they will just as likely fail to honor that deal as this one.

Our diplomatic relations have taken a nose dive.

RP will pay for their lack of Honor. Both from our Riders when we take over their land and cities, and also diplomatically when we feed this evil deal breaking news to other nations.

However, for now, I believe we should attempt resurrect the deal. We want writing. And we give them HB Riding. With Horsies, we are still too far away for them to use against us.

Lets take our revenge on our timetable...and not do anything rash now.

Do not tell them that the GOW does not recognise their claim for land. Do not tell them that we agree with it.

Simply tell them that we do not believe they have the right to demand peaceful exploration from territory that does not fall within their cultural borders.

Remind them that the GOW has never broken or reneged a deal, and that we will only remove our troops if we receive a jpg map of their territory.
Now here is where I may get the wrath of GF on me. I think we should return the favour and give them our map.
I believe, that the map trade should be geographic only. (Ctl-Shft-M). Keeping our city locations safe.

Who cares that they see we have wine. By the time they could set up an offensive against us, our Riders will have destroyed half their cities.

This map trade should be made in good faith that neither team will share it with any other nation.

This includes Lux GF. Feel free to describe what we know in words to them, but just dont send them the map.

We dont have iron working yet, so iron wont appear on our map (assuming a resource is close by - xing fingers), and if we want to be sneaky, I am sure our map making geniuses could brush out our local horse resource. I dont recommend this as it may backfire later.

In summary, it gives them the notion that we are holding no gruges. They get what they want, and our warriors come home. We get an extra tech, and have additional ammunition to make ND & Lux believe Southern expansion is better than Northern.

We want to keep the illusion that RP remains our allies.
We are going to have a local war. Say we align ourselves with ND and take out Lux. This will leave ND between us and RP.
We now have the option to turn on ND and align ourselves with RP for a two front war. Or we can keep our original aliance with ND and take out RP together.
(These are long term plans)

OK - Thats all.
Please dont flame me too much for suggesting a map trade. I just believe our warmongering strategists will get more out of knowing their map than they will get out of ours.
Also note, that GF has convinced me that we need to map the entire continent, so if we cant get a map trade deal, then our warriors continue to explore.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

They flat out will not give us Writing. Has nothing to do with exploring, they weren't going to trade before the explorer situation.

They have traded with ND and Lux, its obvious they want to go to war with us and have no care about their diplomatic reputation.

i have no problems trading maps for maps, but Roleplay will not do that later. Their word on trading us their map is useless. If they are so protective of the mapped area now that they have no settlements on it how are they going to be later when it does?

Received this message today:

Good news!
Our people would like to give you iron working for horse riding as soon as possible.
Please tell me if you want to trade and when you have discovered horse riding.
If there are still plans to make a tech alliance (without spain?) please tell me.

Thanks a lot
Good luck

We need to work out a deal between us, ND, and Lux.

I would like to see about trading for Ironworking from ND, and Writing from Trip. Let Lux know that we are aware of their alliance with RP and feel RP violated theri deal with us because they feel they can use Lux to get theri techs and pit us against them.

Will trade them Horseback Riding in return they trade it to Roleplay and give us Writing back.




I would have liked to put this up for discussion but as we have the timecounter ticking I passed this meassage on to Togas in hopes of "shaming" him into going through with the Writing deal:

Here's the save.

I am suprised that you chose to break the tech trade agreement we had made to trade Horseback Riding for Writing but I would rather find out your team is untrustworthy now than later.

[Hot_Enamel]

I agree with you on every point GF

We align ourselves with ND for an early horsie war with ND...(Their RP allies are too far away to help them)

Then GOW & ND vs RP

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I think our relations with ND and Lux are fine, but I thing Roleplay is too unstable to deal with. Their roleplaying is causing them to generate far too many plots and conspiricies.

I think we should ally with Lux against ND when the war comes.

OR

Wait until Lux attacks ND, then offer our aid to ND which will cause them to hold us in much higher regard than RP.

RP isn't going to help either of them.

[Hot_Enamel]

Is there a posibility that RP popped a goodie hut settler and created a city far to their east.

That may be the reason why they want to claim the full southern region.

Or they may just be insane .. who knows.

We will need to decide who we align with after we scout Lux territory.
At a first glance, it seems easier to cut lux from their horse resource if ND wanted an early war.

Scout first

[Panzer32]

Response from Roleplay

Panzer,
I apologize for the late reply -- it has indeed been a busy day, with much discussion on my team about how to respondto this recent set of events. There are obviously many people with different feelings on the issue, and it has (as such) generated a great deal of discussion about how to best respond to this chain of events, even within my own team .

Firstly, in regards to your question about how big the territory in question is. El Valle De Los Torros has jungle to the north, is surrounded by mountains on two sides, and has the sea at its west. It is literally the heartland of España. At its widest points, it is about seven spaces wide and four deep. At our current rate, we'll have it mostly settled within twenty turns, and another ten after that our settlement should be complete. That should give you a rough feeling for the size of the land -- if there is any other information you desire, please let me know.

It is the land we have. I understand your concern -- how do you know that we are not portioning off half of the map for ourselves? -- but I tell you, it is not the case. This is the little land available to us, and we must protect it, not out of greed, but because it is our home. As we've said, we're happy to trade maps with you as soon as the technology is available, and you can see that we speak the truth -- it is not merely some land that we might choose to settle in the future, but it is indeed the land that we are settling now, and shall be done settling soon in the future.

It is not that we trust you any less than we trust any other in this matter. We have asked both ND and Lux to do the same, and have gone as far as to sign some agreements to this matter. To quote from our private forums:

Originally posted by ruby_maser
El Valle de los Toros represents the most arable land in the vicinity of the Spanish kingdom and, as so, also represents the most viable option for settlement in the near future. Scouting in the valley constitutes a knowledge of our homeland's defenses that we would prefer to avoid. We have made no such scouting expedition north of the jungle for that very reason and have also come to an understanding with Lux Invicta and Neu Demogyptica concerning this issue. As such, we would ask that you join us in friendship and respect and know that we shall extend you and your lands the same courtesy.

As we've said, we have been happy to avoid scouting your territory until you're prepared for it to be shown, and would gladly trade maps as soon as it's possible. If it would make your people more at ease with the situation, we'd be happy to sign a mutual agreement with you in this regard. We have discovered Iron Working in the recent past -- once we've resolved this larger issue of territory, we can see what trades are available to us (I fear that it may already be too late for a trade with Iron (though I can't say for sure), but we should at least move on to open up avenues for future trades). The sooner we can resolve this, the better, as it's holding up our diplomatic options.

It is my understanding that our leaders have had some (rather unfruitful) discussions on this matter. I ask that we, in the name of diplomacy and peace, find some way to put these conflicts behind us. On my team, there is a good deal of mixed feelings on this issue, as I'm sure there are on yours. We, as Ambassadors from our respective groups, need to act now to establish a solid diplomatic relationship for the future.

Thanks again.

-- adaMada
Togas' Ambassador to Glory of War