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**Panzer32** · August 15, 2003, 12:37

ok, if we do switch to horsemen, here are the cities we should not change as it would waste shields:

Trafalgar
Bad Karma
Camp Cod
The Hill
Camp Concord
Drednoughtica

(edit - I mean don't switch to horse before they finish current project, ie Rider)

For the other cities, a horseman will take as long as a pikeman to build.

Also, currently, we don't have horses in the southern RP territory so we can't build horseman :/

And speaking as MoIA, currently (assuming Leos) we only have the resources to upgrade 3 horsemen. I forsee this changing once we get Invention and start on 100% tax.. even if we are helping Legos with gunpowder.

**GhengisFarb™** · August 15, 2003, 12:58

That's the point, we cut off Iron now and when the Riders finish we start building Horsemen. In two turns when we finish Invention we go to 100% tax for the four turns it takes to finish Leonardo's.

**Aggie** · August 15, 2003, 13:02

Ok, I' have decided that we will wait until the big camps finish riders(and start on others) to cut iron. with their production we waste tons of shields with horsemen. My suggestion is this, lets change the pike up north to horse when this occurs. Yes we have one less defensive unit, but we get(for 80) a rider that can attack and defend. In the south do spearman. A barracks in say merida or Salamanaca if it survives is reasonable . also those workers on the mountain can road and thus connect us to iron(and luxuries for the north).
Of course it depends on what happens. If Salamanca falls and the works fall it will be longer for the road. an arguement could be made to keep iron connected and then spend the 76 for barracks in the south(Salamanca is my suggestion). Then make that where we rush(horsemen and then upgrade, cost per rider is 156(40 for upgrade,116 for rush). I'm still calculating what is best and will get back to you all on this item. That means we will have saved up 390 extra before Leonardos. that meams we can upgrade 9 horse to riders if we can produce by that time. Forr every southern upgrade just subtract 156. But think of it this way. Once we have done that there will be turns with no horse. Then we can do an upgrade in the south, also remember we will only spend 116 at first for the Horse and the 40 is later.
Aggie

**Aggie** · August 15, 2003, 13:38

Ok, i've just done an experiment with one of my games. You can reconnect iron and it still produces the horse, until next civ advance. So we can disconnect and reconnect as needed to either get camps on Riders or the smaller cities on Horse. Also remember that it might be possible to speed up leonardo's to less turns if we reduce the shields on the camps. If we desired and it was economical. We could have them produce only 10 shields a turn and perhaps more money and food(from coastal). I haven't checked this though. We will be producing 130 gpt once we get invention done. That is 3 Rider a turn with Leonardoes. I'll have to make some calculations and timetables test what is optimal. My gut instinct is that the big camps and capital produce riders and the other produce horse. This would probably give enough extra to rush horse and barracks in the south.
Aggie

**Aggie** · August 15, 2003, 18:47

OK I have done the numbers and analysis. I have one order to our ND, ambassador "Cut the !#!#$#iron". If we do that we will be able to produce 30 riders over the next 10 turns. 5 Riders, 27 Horse. At 130 a turn for 8 turns(after invention) will will have approx(after considering an average of 20 extra units, for safty margin) 110*8 =880. with leonardos that = 22 upgrades to Rider for a total of 27 riders in the next 10 turns with 5 more horse able to be upgraded. Now how much will we have to donate for Lego to get GP qiuickly.
Aggie

**Panzer32** · August 15, 2003, 21:26

Guys remember we have to supplement income to Lego to research gunpowder quickly. It might be up to 80 gold/turn

Having said that, it will probably be only for about 5 turns or so.

**Aggie** · August 15, 2003, 21:41

That is true, but regardless we can produce more Riders this way and hopefully we can coordinate this with ND. Also we have an extra 120 or so already. Now after GP is discovered we will have the musket upgrades. so much is uncertain. but we can easily end up at 20 riders in next 10 turns. Which will leave GS in a hopeless position. Or we could suggest the Lego take another turn. Who is the Lego ammassador, he should inform Lego that we will be giving invention in 2 turns. Of course this could meam more money to them because they have less time to build up money.
Aggie

**GhengisFarb™** · August 16, 2003, 09:48

There's still the question of who will have saltpeter and how long it may take to hook up.

**Panzer32** · August 16, 2003, 10:12

CoIA and King of Trafalgar and Isolationia orders

(btw, Isolationia = Chinan, Shantung, Kaifeng, and Port Isolation)

-Republic Worker 3 road.
-Port Isolation builds worker, rename to Isolation worker and move west (to hook up PI)

-I am not sure of where XXII Imperial Guard moved to last turn. I was moving it to Chinan, so rename to XXII Chinan Guard. If it moves into Chinan this turn request move IIIrd Imperial Infantry towards Kaifeng.

Ghengis (and Aggie): This is the tile numbering system that we (or at lease H_E and I) use:

Trafalgar:
-change workforce to 1,3,4,5,7,11,20; unless this makes a Rider in over 2 turns in which case switch the 20 to and 8.
-keep on Rider production.

Chinan:
-change workforce to work tile 7 (grassland)
-change build to worker (from walls)

Shantung:
-change workforce to work tiles 1,4 (wheat and game)
-should be building forbidden palace. no change.

Kaifeng:
-should be working tile 8
-change build to worker (from walls)

Port Isolation:
-should be working tiles 1,4.
-should be done a worker, build a settler.

**Aggie** · August 16, 2003, 13:19

yah. panzer I know the system well. It is the same one from the demogame. After doing for whta seemed 50 cities a turn I have it down pretty well.

. Also Ghengis you have a point there, but honestly I intend to be on offense so that would be where I'd spend the money. Now if a GS invasion force arrived, I might up grade units near to the fight. But if one does, with current plans of production, we will have plenty to meet it. Also I think we should send riders(10) down and then use the next 10 for defense. I really don't see a danger of invasion, but if it happens, we can always use the city switch exploit to get troops home. We might lose Port Isolations but that is all. Me and Darekill decided they would pillage and attack open units and wear down toledo(to 6) and then when the next wave form the north arrives we can attack. Does this sound reasonable.
Aggie

**GhengisFarb™** · August 16, 2003, 14:08

First of all, Spain ain't out yet, they have lost virtually no troops in this war and have a HUGE army around their Capital. I image its a mere token force in Barcelona, especially since GS rushed to cut us off from attacking it.

The south is now defensive for us, prevent RP/GS from regaining ground. The offensive must be built, organized, and sent out from our homeland.

A negoitiated cease-fire would be ideal, but I would only accept it if it was offered from our enemies first, our bringing up would let them know we don't have a secondary offensive on the way.

**Aggie** · August 16, 2003, 14:18

I agree, thats why I want to lay seize to their capital and cut the pop down. I suspect the have around 20 real units + catapults. They have to pay for that somehow. We need to pillage roads and put a rider or 2 on that gold. I know GS will pay for their troops, but lets make them do it. Also it would be worth it to take away their food. Us and ND have the troops(particularly ND). losses can be replaced but if we drive down the pop its like taking out 25% of units. The forces in the south could be hard pressed. I would almost be worth it to build spear and upgrade to pike down there. We also need to do regular scounting to make sure that Gs doesn' try coming W. I think the best defense strategy will be to let the riders all heal and then us a offesnive defense. With roads this is possible. Make GS cover their advance with pike. This gives us time to build and for the north Riders to get down and us to seriously degrade RP.
Aggie

**GhengisFarb™** · August 16, 2003, 16:54

Let's rush Spearman down there then and build a get at least one Barracks. ND is only one tile from connecting these cities to their homeland and a turn here and there of Iron will allow us to upgrade those Spearmen to Pike.

We pull the Riders back to heal, and use fully healed ones to run in pillage tiles and then run out.

**Panzer32** · August 16, 2003, 18:01

Worker actions for down south

-Stack of 3 workers roads mountain where they are according to pic in 110ad thread.
-Send the other one (two if we capture the other RP worker) north or northwest. They will travel over the road the others are making and head to GoW lands through ND territory. The reasons for this are simple: none of those RP cities are going to be productive and why should we improve them because ND just gets that land anyways

As CoIA, I accept the rushing of two (2) spearman, expected to come to a total of 156 gold. Reasons are simple - we don't have the gold for more

Also, I suggest we rush in Salamanca and Valencia (as they are close to the front and the one other is in resistance)

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