2nd attempt at a Public Announcement

[Master Zen]

1) Contact GS first

2) If they act like little *****es, force THEM to make the public statement. Threaten them that if they do, we'll make all details of the NAP and how they've broken their honor code.

Honor code... BS. Their honor code is as strong and solid as a wet sponge...

[Aggie]

Yap, apparently their honor code is more a "convienience code", ie whatever is convienient for them. First the stupid"we can cancel at anytime" then this crap.
Aggie

[Donegeal]

Why all this talk about worring about breaking the NAP?

WHO CARES ANY MORE!!!

RP will be dead. Lux is dead and Vox doesn't matter. This leaves Lego, ND and GS. We have proven to be great allies with ND and if we break the NAP to further a war that we planed for SOOOOO long, they will understand (and still trust us). If we violate the NAP with GS, who cares if they don't trust us anymore? Now Lego. They are perfectly willing to just sit there and build. We have all but allied ourselves publicly with making them the winner. They will trust us.

Our reputation be damned! It no longer matters! GS will scream blody murder no matter what, and people will agree with their position that we violated the NAP, but the same people who agree that what we did was wrong will still be glad we did it.

[Panzer32]

Whatever we do just be quick about it. RP has passed the save to Vox. Then it goes to Lego then GS finds we've 'invaded'.

[Master Zen]

It's not that WE care if the NAP is violated, its the fact we're pushing GS to break it themselves which is exactly what they don't want to do

so, ehem, whoever was going to send it... (GF ?) send it!

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Master Zen
It's not that WE care if the NAP is violated, its the fact we're pushing GS to break it themselves which is exactly what they don't want to do

so, ehem, whoever was going to send it... (GF ?) send it!

I already sent it this morning. I sent it to notyoueither, zeit, and Sir Ralph.

No response yet.

[Hot_Enamel]

The problem with waiting for a response from GS.

They get to make the first accusation. By entering into their borders, we have violated their territory, therefore committed a hostile action, and therefore broken the NAP.

Because we requested permission to enter their borders previously, we have already acknowledged that GS own those cities, and we have no right to be in them.

That puts us in a difficult position…


By making the public announcement, we are basically covering our asses now.
We are NOT stating that we will invade their territory, kill units or take over towns.
We are simply stating that the transfer of those towns is not recognized, and we will do as we please.
Therefore we have set the foundation for our defense, that we have not broken any NAP.

I agree with Donegeal, that we are coming close to the end of the game, were agreements may no longer hold any value. However GS have their honor code, and all this wrangling is merely to make it as difficult for them as possible to attack us. If they can’t attack, then we can hamper their movements to attack ND.

GS need to know that we are not afraid of them, and that we are willing to go to war with them regarding this issue. In the end, it is irrelevant who will win or who thinks they can win. What is important, is that they understand we are in a frame of mind that we no longer care about winning, all we care is about GS losing.

Therefore, we will use every resource available to us to attack and hurt them, and with the final blow, being a UN vote against them. This must make them reconsider their options.

Thus… my argument why I still think we need the public announcement, and why we need to step up to the plate and get a little more demanding & aggressive to GS. The end result being they must get off Bob before we talk about future alliances and how we can win the game as allies.

PS.. if we do make the announcement, and RP flames us about breaking the NAP with GS.. We CANNOT respond, as we agreed to not let any team know we have a NAP. This will also void the contract. We must wait, until GS bring the NAP up.

[Master Zen]

We can argue that not granting us permission violated the NAP in the first place as it hampering our war effort is withouht a doubt a hostile act.

Second of all, by making the accusation public, GS violates the secrecy of the NAP. Remember than in our private message to them we are explicitly stating that the NAP was violated by their refulal to allow us permision to pass. If they want to argue it in public, let them, their diplomatic skills aren't 1/10 of their civ skills and we'll make mincemeat out of them in the public forums.

What I do agree is that we must make our intention ot take toledo public as soon as the save is in our hands and we plan to take it.

[GhengisFarb™]

Both notyoueither and Sir Ralph read the message this morning and have made no mention or comment about it. I think we wait until we attack Toledo and Bilboa and make our announcement when we attack just as we are passing the save to Roleplay.

[Hot_Enamel]

Take them ASAP.

I would rather they be burnt to the ground, than allow GS reinforce them or they be given back to RP

Tell GS..Attack our allies, and its war to the end.

[GhengisFarb™]

Their response:

In reply to the message from GhengisFarb, entitled 'Disappointed'

Greetings, Glorious Warriors,

We of Gathering Storm have no desire to fight your great nation, but we must maintain our sovereignty. One key aspect of sovereignty is the power to enter into mutually beneficial agreements with other nations, and your demands for veto power over our agreements with Spain are a violation of our sovereignty.

The cities we obtained from Spain are not merely useless baggage with no value other than getting in your way. They are already able to contribute to our nation, and can someday contribute far more with courthouses and the proper tile improvements in place. Corruption in those cities is certainly a problem, but by no means an insurmountable one. Further, with a territory expansion, Toledo can provide us with a source of silks within our own territory.

We recognize that our obtaining those cities through diplomatic means before you could annex them militarily has caused you a certain amount of inconvenience. But the opportunity we were presented with to obtain land diplomatically instead of having to fight for it was too good to pass up. Surely you can recognize that a non-aggression pact is not a “won’t take advantage of any opportunity that the other would find inconvenient” pact. Further, GoW did not shed a single drop of blood in an effort to take those cities (indeed, you are not even at war with RP in-game yet), so it is not as if we are depriving you of prizes of an ongoing battle.

All we are really guilty of is that our diplomats moved faster than your Riders in obtaining land that both of us regard as desirable in spite of its high corruption levels. We have not taken or threatened anything that belongs to you. We have not taken or threatened anything you had any legitimate claim on beyond the mere fact that you wanted to take it in the near future.

In closing, we would like to make it clear once again that a non-aggression pact is not a right of passage agreement. Your moving through our cities to attack Roleplay is little different from if we moved through your lands to attack Neu Demogyptica from the north, a movement that surely would require more than a mere non-aggression pact to justify. Further, Gathering Storm has a long-standing policy of viewing unauthorized movement of foreign military forces into our territory as an act of aggression against us, as the fate of Mad King Donegeal’s expedition into our lands can surely attest. Our policy of not allowing foreign soldiers into our lands (especially while we are at war) is not merely something we made up on the spot to get in your way. We are willing to overlook your forces’ current presence in our territory, but must insist that they return the way they came.

Please let us know whether you intend to honor our non-aggression pact or not so we can make our plans accordingly.

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm

cc GhengisFarb, Master Zen, UnOrthOdOx

[GhengisFarb™]

Proposed Response:

There is no Non Agression Pact, you have already violated it by engaging in hostile activity against us. Your attempts to put words in our mouth is a testement to how well Roleplay is controlling you. No longer do you honor your agreements but attempt to disguise the breaking of them with flowering words.

To take cities right before we attack them, not all at once mind you just cities we prepare to attack, and then demand our troops withdraw is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. Slowing down and detouring our troops is HOSTILE ACTIVITY, Giving Inchon to Roleplay to move vast numbers of troops to invade Bob is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. Landing large numbers of troops on Bob with your fleet is HOSTILE ACTIVITY. You have dishonored the NAP not once, but repeatedly, and left us with NO OTHER COURSE FOR SURVIVAL but to defend ourselves and the worthless paper you refuse to honor.

GhengisFarb, Ambassador to GS.

[Donegeal]

All we need to say is that we consider their actions to be hostile towards us. Nowhere in the NAP does it explain what is to be considered "Hostile Action". It is open to interpretation. It is a flawed document.

[GhengisFarb™]

Personally, I like the proposed response because it keeps hammering "HOSTILE ACTIVITY", broken honor, and whatsnot throughout the message.

[Hot_Enamel]

GF – I would take your response much, much further.

Lets stop dicking around with these guys.

The above response is telling them that they have broken the NAP. If not the exact wording, then at least the spirit of it.

Tell them what is going to happen…GS has clearly hampered our forces and are therefore aligning themselves against us. There is not going to be a diplomatic solution to this unless one of us backs down. And it isn’t going to be GoW.


Include something like this…

We would like to remind you, that your diplomats were only able to negotiate territory BECAUSE of our damn riders at their borders. To suggest that you expect us to accept your action without a military response is arrogance to the extreme. GS getting free territory on Bob because of our war is simply not going to happen.

The GoW does not recognise the transfer of ownership of those cities.

We will be taking the following actions on our next turn.
Bilbao will be captured/destroyed this turn. If there are any GS military units within the city, they will be killed as unlawful combatants.

The next turn, Toledo will also be captured. Again, if we find and GS units within the city walls, they will be killed as unlawful combatants.

The GoW does not wish to go to war with GS. But we will not accept any GS military or settlement presence on Bob. GS has clearly broken the terms of our NAP. The GoW is quite prepared to go to war on this issue.

To avoid conflict between our two nations. Only the following can happen. We understand that your diplomatic standing with RP will be tarnished, if you gift Bilbao & Toledo to GoW, so we therefore demand that you either allow the GoW to take the cities, or disband them yourselves. Gifting the cities back to Roleplay is likewise unacceptable. {this last sentence is optional}

The GoW will hold the save on our turn for our full 24 hours in order for GS to reply to this correspondence.

May the RNG have mercy on our souls



Guys... lay down the law to GS ... please do not screw around.

I did not mention the UN vote.. I would save that for the next bit of correspondence.

But we have to tell them the straight up what is going to happen. And also give them a chance to back out.
ie they gift the cities back or disband them.

Regs