Turn 97, 630 BC

[DeepO]

Vel, have you read the chat log between Alva and GF? They asked us this a few turns ago, to be able to land troops at any place we would like, let us declare war, take screenshots, and scream with all our might on the public forum that we are attacked by GoW.

The idea was that if other teams (probably ND, but this was unconfirmed) see that they are splitting troops to invade us, they would attack GoW before they have iron, and GoW says to be ready for a defensive war.

The problem is (at least for me), that we agred to play the game honorably, so that we could not participate in such a ruse. If they now would go ahead, and declare war without our consent, we would still know their intentions, thus we need to spill what they asked of us, or we would be conspiring with GoW.

Of course, the validity of their invasion isn't really an issue, they can't hurt us at all, even if they would land units close to Elipolis instead of in our territory. (luckily, they can't land troops just across the 1-tile crossing between Bob and us, as they would be trapped behind Elipolis). That's not the point, it's the ruse (a poor one at best) that we can't participate in.

Oh, reasons for GoW to do this go farther then simply wanting to deceive ND, it could very well be that Vox has taken a contract on us, which they now want to fulfill. Or appear to fulfill.

DeepO

[Velociryx]

Yep....read that. I don't know if we can claim to know what their intentions are at present, however.

We know what they *were* (granted, as of a few days ago), but perhaps, after they have thought the situation through, they think (for whatever reason) that Vox might have a shot at us. Given their behavior toward Lux (bottom feeding, essentially), this would not be unfathomable behavior for them.

-=Vel=-

[DeepO]

So, you don't disagree that if they invade us, we declare war, and spoil the communication of the past few days to the public forum? We have to wash our hands in innocence here...

DeepO

[FrustratedPoet]

Vel, have you read the chat log between Alva and GF? They asked us this a few turns ago, to be able to land troops at any place we would like, let us declare war, take screenshots, and scream with all our might on the public forum that we are attacked by GoW.

The idea was that if other teams (probably ND, but this was unconfirmed) see that they are splitting troops to invade us, they would attack GoW before they have iron, and GoW says to be ready for a defensive war.

Hmmm ... I had missed that.

They're fools if they think we'll go along with that plan.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by DeepO
So, you don't disagree that if they invade us, we declare war, and spoil the communication of the past few days to the public forum? We have to wash our hands in innocence here...

If they've landed horses in our territory we tell them that either:

1) they leave ... now!

or

2) we declare war on them.

There can be no third option. If their units stay on our continent then we kill them.

In that situation the most we should say in the public forum is either "GoW landed 2 units in our territory, we ordered them to leave and they've gone" or "GoW landed 2 units in our territory and we killed them". There's no need to dress it up any further.

[Velociryx]

If they have landed, then they have declared a defacto war. We do not have RoP agreements with them, nor is there any chance that they have landed here by mistake. Nor are these "harmless" units (ie scouts).

There is no fakery here, IMO. They HAVE declared war.

Now granted, it may well be a very short war, and these two units might be the only ones we'll ever see, but there's no deception as to what occured.

We told them not to land, and they did. That in and of itself is a silent declaration of war with us.

As to what to do with the information that this "extremely limited war" might be a ruse for some greater purpose....I'm on the fence, but I do not see any dishonor in staying silent, no. War has been declared, officially or not, and if GoW loses those troops they have landed, then perhaps they'll be wiser next time around. All that to say that although I personally don't find any dishonor in remaining silent, I will happily go along with the majority.

-=Vel=-

[asleepathewheel]

I agree with the above posts against GoW

Further, they told us they were giving us a few turns to consider, we have not heard back that the decision time was here. For them to force a decision on us, essentially go to war with us or lie about it, is indefensible.

We rub out the units, inform ND that we think something fishy is going on and hope for the best.

GF is trying to play Togas' game, but is not nearly as able.

[Shiber]

Oh, btw: if they end up being the ones to declare war on us in-game, we'll get another negative WW bonus!
Whereas, if we declare war in-game, do we lose the negative WW bonus that we received from Vox? I know that WW can't go beyond zero in MP, but can it still grow as long as the value is below zero?

[DeepO]

Shiber, if they land, we have to declare war, in which case I think we'll lose the WW bonus.

The problem with staying silent is that we play along implicitely, certainly if after a few turns of war (e.g. when GoW would need iron from us), GoW would offer us some compensation to get to peace again. That's what I don't like, and that's what I want to react to. I don't care if it is done publicly, or in private, but I think we should not only warn ND, but also RP and Lego... in which case it would be most honorable of us to simply bring it out in the open.

DeepO

[DeepO]

WW: maybe not. Doesn't this only strike when attacking someone outside your own territory? I can't say for sure...

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by DeepO
Shiber, if they land, we have to declare war, in which case I think we'll lose the WW bonus.

The problem with staying silent is that we play along implicitely, certainly if after a few turns of war (e.g. when GoW would need iron from us), GoW would offer us some compensation to get to peace again. That's what I don't like, and that's what I want to react to. I don't care if it is done publicly, or in private, but I think we should not only warn ND, but also RP and Lego... in which case it would be most honorable of us to simply bring it out in the open.

DeepO

GoW won't need our iron, RP has sufficient iron I believe, and they each have harbors. Could be wrong on the iron, though their territory is so large they should have at least 2 deposits.

edit: I checked the infocenter and am wrong, my apologies.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by DeepO
WW: maybe not. Doesn't this only strike when attacking someone outside your own territory? I can't say for sure...

DeepO

How retarded, declaring war on someone INSIDE your territory would cause war weariness. Great

[DeepO]

alseep, the problem is that it seems that WW is behaving strangely. I don't think that in SP, you get a hit when attacking someone in your own territory, but you won't get a bonus either.

If WW in MP is simply a case of not going negative, we would keep our bonus for as long as we don't start attacking troops outside our cultural borders. Taking, or razing a foreign city would put as at 0 again, losing the bonus. Taking a couple of cities would put us below zero, in which case we don't feel any negative effects, as it gets set to 0 automatically

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by DeepO
alseep, the problem is that it seems that WW is behaving strangely. I don't think that in SP, you get a hit when attacking someone in your own territory, but you won't get a bonus either.

If WW in MP is simply a case of not going negative, we would keep our bonus for as long as we don't start attacking troops outside our cultural borders. Taking, or razing a foreign city would put as at 0 again, losing the bonus. Taking a couple of cities would put us below zero, in which case we don't feel any negative effects, as it gets set to 0 automatically

DeepO

So there is no definitive info on WW in Mp?

[DeepO]

Not that I know of... maybe somebody else has a link somewhere.

DeepO