Turn 96, 650 BC

[Theseus]

I've been puzzling out A9 all morning.

I'm am very reluctant to give it up... a stack of 11 Immortals at 3 of Arashi is waaaay up there on my STCOMOM.

What happens if A9 is defended by:
3 Pikes
4 Swords
5 WCs
1 Cat

I know it's sorta hanging it all out there, but?

[EDIT: Corrected to 5 WCs to leace the elite in Arashi... also, note that the WCs should not be fortified]

[Arrian]

I think Aeson (and Nathan, I think) is saying that the answer to your question, Theseus, is this:

We might win big, we might lose big.

The arguement for abandoning A9 essentially boils down to this: we accept their ability to park some units up there that will cost us later to remove, in exchange for buying us an extra turn & a better defensive situation (hills + walls + fortification + barracks for instahealing).

I'm still not sure about it, but I see their points.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

FYI, it looks like 'poly was down from 12:18 to 16:10, looking at the latest posts in OT as of 16:26.

So that's 3:52 hours.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Arrian
I think Aeson (and Nathan, I think) is saying that the answer to your question, Theseus, is this:

We might win big, we might lose big.

The arguement for abandoning A9 essentially boils down to this: we accept their ability to park some units up there that will cost us later to remove, in exchange for buying us an extra turn & a better defensive situation (hills + walls + fortification + barracks for instahealing).

I'm still not sure about it, but I see their points.

-Arrian

But what happens if they don;t just park at A9, and come further south?

I'm starting a new thread for this discussion.

[asleepathewheel]

If we let them take the mountain, then our cats will get two shots at them, once on our turn and then when they attack. If they move down, then we get a few more shots each. Not that helpful, but its something.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Theseus
FYI, it looks like 'poly was down from 12:18 to 16:10, looking at the latest posts in OT as of 16:26.

So that's 3:52 hours.

Yeah, it was down for a WHILE. Hell, I even went over to CivFanatics and posted a bit.

I really wanted to be discussing this, though.

Finished AU207, by the way

[/threadjack]

Believe me, I too worry about them leaving a token (but hard-as-hell-to-remove) force atop A9 and moving onward, but then again, if they move forward with less troops, we have a better chance of wiping their stack out.

It just isn't a simple decision. Aren't unpredictable (read: human) opponents fun?

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
If we let them take the mountain, then our cats will get two shots at them, once on our turn and then when they attack. If they move down, then we get a few more shots each. Not that helpful, but its something.

True.

I have a bombardment question (I'm actually appalled I don't know this):

Do defensive bonus tiles, such as mountains, play a part in bombard rolls? Cats have a bombard of 4, right? A unit with a 2 defense is fairly likely to get hit... unless terrain modifiers count of course, and it's on a mountain, raising its defense to 4 and making cats much less effective. I honestly don't know.

I'll be a bit more comfortable with abandoning A9 for now if the mountain defense bonus does not effect bombardment.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

I don;t tiles affect bombardment... where're Catt and alexman when you need'em?

[nbarclay]

If Vox leaves a token force on A9, we leave a token force of pikes in Arashi and otherwise ignore them - at least for the time being. Later, we could post guards to deal with them if they move onto flatter lands. We could take out Vox's entire civ while a few immortals sit harmlessly on the mountain if we want to.

Of course in practice, in the near term, Vox is more likely to keep troops moving through A9 than to park particular units there. But the effect would be much the same.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

My purely subjective belief is that terrain pretty definitely matters with bombardment. I've been using bombardment units a bit more lately than I used to, and it "feels" like they're a good bit less effective when the target is on a mountain.

[Arrian]

Of course in practice, in the near term, Vox is more likely to keep troops moving through A9 than to park particular units there

And that's actually my main concern. A9 with several Voxian spears on it is like a protected roadway for reinforcements. And imagine they are given feudalism and send a pike or two down to A9?

Still, like I said, I see both sides of this thing, and will admit I'm undecided as to the best course of action. What I will say is that I started out pretty vehemently pro-"hold the line" and am now in the middle.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by nbarclay
My purely subjective belief is that terrain pretty definitely matters with bombardment. I've been using bombardment units a bit more lately than I used to, and it "feels" like they're a good bit less effective when the target is on a mountain.

Yup, same thing for me. It "feels" that way to me too, but I don't know for sure, hence the question.

And I think it's important for us to know, since we're building (or buying) catapults. We ought to know exactly what our units can and cannot do.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

CFC: Bombardment Investigation

[DeepO]

Shiber, that link doesn't work for me

DeepO

[Randolph]

1. I think it's the target's defense that matters in bombardment roles, assuming that it is modified defense then terrain certainly would affect the outcome. Of course I certainly could be wrong.

2. For what it's worth I think we should fall back to the city. If they decide to hold the mountain and move on I don't think we should worry about it. I don't know what our cultural comparison is, but I find it hard to believe they could hold one of our main cities for more than a few turns. Time is on our side. Has anyone ever had any success with taking 2nd (+) 'row' cities before the first? I certainly haven't.

3. If someone could send any saves, scenarios, screens, etc. to rgrant@zoo.uvm.edu I'd appreciate it.