Will we allow Vox to save Lux?

[Dominae]

Originally posted by alva
He who is not in the game, cannot do alot

...for us. Lux is better to us alive than dead since they're so weak now. The fact that they're coming right to our doorstep is icing on the cake.


Dominae

[Shiber]

Originally posted by alva
A map of BOB would be nice

ANOTHER reason in favor of keeping Lux around.
Good thinking.

[alva]

Lux gets contact with Lego, sells all their tech and get a (real) second chance...

What does get Vox get from this btw?

[zeit]

I see no point in allowing them refuge here- this might spell trouble. I am completely against this move (although we can't stop Vox if they really want to).

We know how hard it is to handle with one problematic team- do we need another to manage?
LI definitely is the bad guy, as far as the teams on Bob see it. Why do we want to bring them under our wing? they played like morons, and upset the meanest kid in the block- they deserve to be gone. I wouldn't want this to be spilled out- that we are even discussing this- we were smart not to soil ourselves, while the others fight it out like hungry wolves (also RP, with its share of hypocrisy and backstabbing).

We should be smart not to get involved in any way- not with us hosting an unwanted stranger in our land, nor forcing ourself to give away land or increasing the risk of foreign invasion. Also, taking LI oursleves will just divert us from our current course- as we will be looked on as an opportunistic bully- certainly not what we intend to look like.

The only way i see this happening, which should also be told to Vox- is this:

If you want to keep LI in the game like this, then you do so without excpeting us giving something to your or to LI.
Any city they wish to build- will have to stand on a tile that falls in your land, according to the border treaty on which signed.
You also must make sure, that in the event of our homeland Iron resource depletes, you or LI supply us with Iron, since we won't be able to hook that Iron south of Dissidentvill, if LI's palace sits there.
Remember This was also agreed when the border treaty was signed- that each team gets two tiles of Iron, and that Dissidentville does not threaten, with its cultural border, our possesion of the Iron resource. Since the existence of the Luxian palace will change this, if you choose to gift them the city.

IMHO, we should send this to Lux ASAP, are there any objections?


Oh, and, are LI's members that honorless? You lost folks, you just have to accept that...

[Dominae]

Lux will be so weak that they will hardly be a threat. Thus the "unwanted stranger" argument fails, because they'll get quite cozy with us once they realise we're the big kid on the block (block = our continent).

Sure, they may have spelled their own doom, but I assure you they are not morons. Trip mentions over and over that he's essentially playing to have fun in this game. Not all teams are focused on the trophy as we are.

Personally I think it would be quite funny and profitable to have Lux as a vassal state. Vox has nothing to do with it, from our point of view. If they want to give Lux some of their land, so be it. It only weakens them and strengthens us.

About the Iron, we swoop in and say "You want to survive as our neighbors? Then: no Iron for you!". We would then place a Spearmen or three on the Iron deposit indefinitely. Note that this works with Lux because they want to survive. In fact, we're essentially denying Vox an Iron deposit.

I sense a poll coming...


Dominae

[alva]

(although we can't stop Vox if they really want to).

Not directly, we can take the city ourselves, if we would want to. Although this could slightly upset VOX , we could give disville back to them.
Wastfull, yes, but it is an option.

[alva]

Lux will be so weak that they will hardly be a threat.

True, but they will be plotting something to gain more power. Either with us or against us.

Like I said before I still havn't made my mind up either way, but atm I fail to see what we stand to gain from it.
For now, IMHO the pro's don't outweigh the contra's.

[zeit]

I agree that Lux is by no means a threat- and i basicly say that as i see it- there's no good in Lux grabbing a foothold here. BUT, if they agree to forfeit the Iron, compensate Vox (and Vox will give something from it to us- like their WM), and have no military whatsoever- meaning they can't spy on us.

Something like that can be arranged. I'll draw back my "complete objection", and would say that i'm not thrilled by the idea, and see it as an opportunity to make a profit- meaning that i would accept this only for the right price (like gold,WM, no settling, building no units whatsoever- just accumulating gold and making research, perhaps also paying rent to Vox... )

[alva]

Trip mentions over and over that he's essentially playing to have fun in this game.

Sorry, but I'm not buying this. I'm sure Trip was playing to win like we all are.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by zeit
I am completely against this move (although we can't stop Vox if they really want to).

Exactly. IMHO, chances are that Vox will find a way to do this without our agreement, whether we like it or not. Might as well agree but make some demands (e.g. no iron for LI, as Dominae proposed, and a share of LI's gold and workers, or whatever they'll manage to salvage from their old palace on Bob).

[Shiber]

We can set any conditions we like. We can get a share of what LI could salvage of their gold and workers and Lux's world map; we could order (yes, order!) LI not to settle any more cities; we could deny them the iron source (thus also depriving Vox of one iron source, as Dominae explained).
This will weaken Vox, setting them back by one city. We're planning on conquering Vox later anyway, so when we do, we could conquer Lux as well (or leave their single jungle city be, if we prefer to. Maybe they can clear the jungle for us before we conquer it). Plus, the job of conquering Vox will be easier because they've been set back by one city relatively early in the game.

Lux will have to agree to our conditions . They have one other choice - die, but they want to stay in the game (and certainly don't wanna be the first team to get eliminated).

[Harovan]

I'm still against this deal. It won't weaken Vox, as Dissidentville is a crap city anyway. And why should we bother with Lux. A weak Lux is good, ok, but a dead Lux is better.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I'm still against this deal. It won't weaken Vox, as Dissidentville is a crap city anyway.

So is their plains/desert capital. In fact, Dissidentville is slightly better since it has access to wheat, and since once the jungle around it is chopped, it becomes a grassland city (whereas their capital will be a plains/desert city forever).
In any case, I do think this will weaken them. Vox are already weak, and losing one city and some territory along with it would put another nail in their coffin.

And why should we bother with Lux. A weak Lux is good, ok, but a dead Lux is better.

How is that?
A dead Lux can't share its map of Bob with us. A dead Lux can't share some of the gold that they could salvage with us. A dead Lux can't deprive Vox of one of their iron sources.
I can see lots of advantages in this plan, and few obstacles, all ones that we can overcome.

[Harovan]

Message received from BetaHound

Hello Sir Ralph. Regarding our earlier discussions, and your current deliberations, there is a desire by the Voxians that IF this is done as discussed, that we keep it quiet, and between GS, Vox, and Lux. For now. Some may wonder what is up when they still see Lux's name on the board, but we figure we should let them wonder. And BTW - if this does go through, we are insisting the new city be re-named Portia, from the Merchant of Venice and the "Quality of mercy..." speech.

Regards .... Beta.

[Theseus]

I am still more or less against this...

UNLESS we go pyscho on both at Vox and Lux at the same time, when we are ready, and clean our continent of all vermin.