DIPLO: Glory of War contact LOG

[Aeson]

Ok, sent the deal to GF and GoW (wasn't sure who to contact)

GF,

I am including the ratified Feudalism deal with this message. We are holding onto the save to make sure everything is in order before accepting the 200g, also for the screenshot of Voxian troop movements GoW took last turn to better direct our own.

Good luck to you and GoW in your naval exploration. We will coordinate things so that neither of our vessels will have to delay any movement for the other's.

Sincerely,

Aeson

GhengisFarb of the Glory of War,

It is the pleasure of GS to offer GoW this document confirming our agreement to the matters discussed yesterday.

We feel the agreement is best served for both parties with a few particulars that were not touched on in the discussions earlier. These are only suggestions on the part of GS, and if they fail to meet with the approval of GoW they can be erased and the agreement will still stand. These inclusions will be noted with a *.

If GoW has any suggestions as to any revisions or additions, GS will give the same consideration to those proposals. This is to allow for the final polish to be added to the agreement while avoiding any further delays in the signing which is time critical at this juncture. In no case will either party be forced to agree to any such additions if they feel they aren't in their own best interests.

------------------------------

The Terms: (currently turn 93)

Research and Payment:

GoW sends 200g to GS this turn.

GS will increase research funding on Feudalism to finish the advance on turn 96.

GS promises to deliver Feudalism to GoW as soon as it is researched.

GoW agrees to an NDA (NTC) on Feudalism for for the duration of 10 turns from when it is delivered to them. After 10 turns have passed from GoW recieving Feudalism, they are free to do with it as they see fit.

Sea ROP:

GS gives full access to the Galleys of GoW to navigate the shores of Little Bob. This access will last until GoW has had ample time to explore the circumferance of the continent or GoW is satisfied with the extent of their exploration.

GS agrees not to land any units on BoB for the duration of the Sea ROP *plus 10 turns, without explicit consent from GoW.

GoW agrees not to land any units on Little Bob for the duration of the Sea ROP *plus 10 turns, without explicit consent from GS.

GoW will use a Galley to observe the road between Elipolis and Dissidentville to report Voxian troop movements to GS for a duration of 5 turns. These reports will be in the form of screenshots showing the type and number of Voxian units within the Galley's sight. The Galley will each turn check the tiles NW of Grog Mountain, to 2 tiles South, NW of Vox's cultural borders if not hampered by Voxian vessels. After 5 turns time, the Galley is free to continue on it's way. *If GoW's Galley happens to be sunk by the Voxians, GoW will notify GS of it and the observation requirement will be dropped at that point.

GoW's ships in GS territory will not number more than two. Neither will the two venture within 8 tiles of each other. The first vessel will be allowed 2 Horsemen occupants. The second will be empty.

This Sea ROP will last until GoW's vessels are able to safely (or suicidally if GoW so chooses) leave GS' waters having explored their extent.

Future Chivalry Trade: (can be agreed to now or seperated from the above for further revision)

GoW researches Chivalry as soon as Feudalism is delivered to them.

GS will give 200g to GoW halfway through GoW's research of Chivalry.

GoW will give Chivalry to GS as soon as research is finished.

GS will observe an NDA (NTC) on Chivalry equivalent to that which GoW agrees to with Feudalism. After 10 turns have passed from GS receiving Chivalry, they are free to do with it as they see fit.

---------------------

This agreement in whole or in part (as noted by *) is hereby officially ratified by The Gathering Storm.

[Aeson]

GF,

I just realized that I didn't give an address where the screenshots could be sent to. GS' mailbox is at:

mailto:gatheringstorm@softhome.net

Thanks,

Aeson

[Aeson]

Sent to GoW

Greetings Panzer32 and GoW,

(GhengisFarb is also receiving a copy)

We thank GoW for sending the screenshot. Many of our fears have been unjustified it seems. We will still plan for the worst, but the information GoW has provided us is a great comfort.

It is also with pleasure that I can bring news that GS' Golden Age has begun after a glorious victory over Voxian Immortals. The added commerce will allow us to research Feudalism a turn earlier than specified in the agreement and we will be able to forward it to GoW a turn earlier as well. We ask that the original ending of the NDA stay at the same turn as agreed upon. It will in essense be the same NDA, only the delivery of the tech happens sooner.

I hope this meets with the approval of GoW.

Regards,

Aeson

ps. RP seems to be set upon getting us into a bidding war between us to sell them Feudalism. They have told us that GoW are offering it at 75g after the NDA expires. Perhaps discussion about some form of profit sharing in trading this tech to RP could keep the price up enough that both our nations would profit? Otherwise the price may plumet tremendously and neither side will get even half of what it is worth.

If GoW is interested in such a proposal, please let us know.

[Aeson]

Reply from GF:

Yes, we did offer it to Roleplay before the NDA was agreed to and told them we would sell it to them when our no trade agreement had expired for a discounted price as they theatened to go to war with our team if we broke the trade embargo they had built against your team.

The best way I can explain this is my using an analogy to Napoleonic Europe. Think of yourselves as Napoleonic France and the other teams as the rest of Europe. Your members have a reputation for being strategic geniuses and appear to have an incredible research rate. The other teams fear your growing power and Roleplay has taken the position of England in trying to use the other teams as coalition pawns to hold you in check.

GoW is walking a fine line of diplomacy by trading for Feudalism (which is our primary objective in these negotiations) and maintaining peaceful relations with the other civs we have dealings with. There are some things we cannot do or assist you with due to treaty agreements but we have never agreed to the tech or trade embargo. But there is still pressure for us to agree to it or risk the use of force against us.

Our objective is to attain Chivalry and upgrade/construct as many Riders as possible so that we are no longer threatened by these insinuations of force.

[Aeson]

I'm thinking this will be my last message to GoW (other than a thank you for the next message if it comes). A new voice caught GF a bit off gaurd, but that it is wearing thin.

He seems to think he can bully Shiber even though it isn't true. It might be better for us to let him think that (sorry Shiber ) at this point though. If we show too strong to GoW, it gives RP's manipulations more foundation to work on.

Of course, if we roll over Vox and get our FP in place we won't be able to 'smurf', we become the big bad GS that everyone wants to ally against I'm afraid. Probably why RP got Vox to go all or nothing on us, they actually don't mind us getting bigger (and of course don't mind if Vox takes us out).

At that point we just have to make sure each team realizes that in an alliance against GS... we pick the 'next one out'. (ie. a Louis L'amour gunfight... "Sure you're buddies will win, but you're the one we're taking down with us")

GF,

Thanks for your candor about the situation. All teams have their difficulties in this game, be it terrain, luck of the rng, or otherwise. If part of GS' difficulties are due to out of game reputation, so be it.

The possibility stands that GS will continue bidding against you to sell Feudalism to RP. RP has approached us about whether we are willing to underbid you or not already. I'd personally rather we let you take as much gold out of RP's hands as possible, but I can't say how our team will react. A bidding war is certainly not optimal for either of our teams, but for the one who wins the bidding, even 1g is more than none at all.

If you are worried about the embargo, at least you may see if RP is actually dedicated to it, or if they just want a "We can trade with GS when the price is in our favor, but no one else can" type of deal.

-------------------

On a more official note, how much of the agreement has GoW ratified? The sea ROP/intelligence gathering deal is obviously on (though we would like to be sure as to the particulars * noted before GoW enters our waters), as well as the Feudalism deal. Is the Chivalry deal acceptable, or is that not possible due to the embargo pressure?

- Aeson

[Shiber]

Wrong thread.

[Aeson]

GF's reply:

I have no desire to enter a bidding war for Feudalism, Roleplay made it fairly clear to us that they had no intention of allowing your team to gain any gold from trade transactions. That made it clear that they expected us to research Feudalism completely on our own and offer it to them. We found this to be a highly ineffecient method, especially with your team so close to completing it. It seems their plan to isolate you from anything that could help you win the war with Vox.

Also, any info we discussed with Roleplay about Feudalism was before the NDA was brought into play, we are no longer making any comments or speculation to anyone about Feudalism or negotiation/offers relating to it. I cannot see how Roleplay would be pitting you against us in a bidding war as we have not discussed any deal relating to Feudalism in several days.

My comments relating to the views of other teams were not meant to be a threat, merely a personal observation and analogy of the current situation. ND seems to be taking a fairly neutral position in the situation and I have no info on Lego's assessment, merely what Roleplay tells me that those teams will do.

We should chat about this soon, I feel that it is easier to discuss and elaborate on points through chat than pms.

[alva]

GF invited me to the chat, while the Lego meating was on-going:

Session Start: Sun Apr 13 23:24:05 2003
Session Ident: #gow
[23:24] * Now talking in #gow
[23:24] *alva* hi
[23:25] * mr_AFK|AFK has joined #GoW
[23:25] *mr_AFK|AFK* lol
[23:25] *mr_AFK|AFK* u need more security
[23:25] * mr_AFK|AFK has left #GoW
[23:25] -mr_AFK|AFK:#GoW- like at least a password
[23:25] -mr_AFK|AFK:#GoW-
[23:26] *alva* not my room
[23:29] *GhengisFarb* what's with the nosy rp'ers
[23:29] *alva* no idea
[23:29] *alva* So, what's up
[23:29] *GhengisFarb* How's the Vox war going?
[23:30] *alva* They seems to organize their units
[23:30] *GhengisFarb* ??
[23:30] *alva* their not at our front door yet
[23:31] *alva* Maybe they are waiting for the units thr recalled from BOB
[23:31] *GhengisFarb* We were wondering if your team would help us with a little ruse.
[23:31] *alva* Can't promise anything
[23:32] *GhengisFarb* Their aren't any Vox units on Bob
[23:32] *alva* will take into consideration of course
[23:32] *alva* never have been?
[23:33] * nbarclay has joined #GOW
[23:33] *GhengisFarb* We want to land a Horseman in GS land and start a fake war with GS. We would need your team to take a screenshot and scream like Bloody Murder in the Public Forum about how we backstabbed you
[23:33] *alva* ah
[23:33] *nbarclay* Alva invited me to join here. Hope that's okay.
[23:33] *GhengisFarb* We want ND and Roleplay to think we invade GS with all our troops and that we are ripe to be invaded ourselves.
[23:34] *alva* auch, that's one big favor, why?
[23:34] *alva* when? (before riders?)
[23:34] *GhengisFarb* We think one of them is planning to attack us and we want them to do it without realizing we are waiting for them.
[23:35] *GhengisFarb* Not for a few turns, we'll land the Horseman whereever you tell us to. It will be a tile of your choosing.
[23:35] *alva* you think you can get them to believe you invaded us without riders?
[23:36] *GhengisFarb* If your team brings it up, yes. Roleplay has been encouraging us to attack you before you get Feudalsim.
[23:36] *GhengisFarb* So its
[23:36] *alva* hmm
[23:36] *GhengisFarb* not unbelievable that we would do this.
[23:37] *GhengisFarb* This would make Vox think you are now having to split your forces.
[23:37] *alva* thats not gonna easely to be sold in the GS team
[23:37] *GhengisFarb* Understood, that why we brought it up several turns ahead of time.
[23:38] *alva* any idea, on what would be in there for us?
[23:38] *GhengisFarb* What do you want?
[23:39] *alva* why not phtoshop it?
[23:40] *GhengisFarb* If you guys are willing to photoshop it that would be fine, we just need your team to scream about ours landing in your land
[23:40] *alva* Besides, we have this honorable thing going, so we can 't lie...ever.
[23:41] *GhengisFarb* That's why we planned on landing a Horseman, everything you would say would be true. We DID invade your continent, and we did land our Horseman.
[23:42] *alva* hmmm
[23:42] *alva* Well, i'll post it on the forum.
[23:43] *GhengisFarb* We don't want to start this until after we get Feudalism and upgrade to Pikemen though.
[23:43] *alva* I don't many will be happy having units on our territory though, specially now.
[23:44] *GhengisFarb* We could land them adjacent to your troops which means you would have first attack opportunity
[23:44] *alva* So you don't really kno, who is going to attack you?
[23:44] *GhengisFarb* OH, we are pretty darn sure, we just don't want to let the cat out of the bag yet
[23:44] *alva*
[23:45] *alva* if it only were a cat hey
[23:45] *alva* Well, the more info you give, the more chance you got convincing the others (gs)
[23:46] *alva*
[23:46] *GhengisFarb* The problem is some of your team members are buddies with the team we think is going to attack us.
[23:46] *alva* buddies?
[23:47] *alva* so what, in this game, there are no friends
[23:47] *alva* no info on this will be passed through.
[23:47] *GhengisFarb* Who would be in the best postion to take advantage of this opportunity?
[23:48] *alva* your closest neighbour?
[23:48] *GhengisFarb* That could be either Vox or ND
[23:48] *alva* Vox?
[23:49] *alva* I would expect more for ND to travel south, and avoid your riders.
[23:50] *GhengisFarb* What RIders? We don't have Chivalry.
[23:50] *alva* (do you have the iron to do this?)
[23:50] *GhengisFarb* Currently, we have Iron
[23:50] *alva* You could in about 10 turns
[23:50] *GhengisFarb* That would work fine
[23:51] *GhengisFarb* We have to go through anarchy to get to Republic though.
[23:51] *alva* true
[23:52] *alva* So you think ND is going to attack you as soon as they have chivalry?
[23:53] *GhengisFarb* Both of us get our UU's with Chivalry
[23:53] *alva* yep, it's quite a coincedence to end up next to each other
[23:54] *GhengisFarb* Our Border looks the Western Front from WWI
[23:54] *alva* So, you are going to try to get them to come early...?
[23:54] *alva* lol
[23:54] *GhengisFarb* Once we upgrade our Spearmen to Pike
[23:55] *alva* what are the stats for the ND UU again?
[23:55] *alva* 5.3.2.
[23:55] *alva* ?
[23:55] *GhengisFarb* Not good, their just cheap
[23:55] *GhengisFarb* Ours is more expensive but has better stats
[23:56] *alva* upgrade from horsemen
[23:56] *nbarclay* Ansars are 4.2.3
[23:56] *GhengisFarb* That's why we've be stockpiling Horsemen
[23:56] *nbarclay* Riders 4.3.3
[23:56] *nbarclay* But Ansars cost ten gold less.
[23:56] *alva* best UU in the game, the rider
[23:57] *MasterZen* if you survive that long yes
[23:57] *alva*
[23:57] *alva* you have (almost)
[23:57] *alva*
[23:57] *MasterZen* that's why we must take care of that (almost) uncertainty
[23:58] *alva* hmm
[23:58] *GhengisFarb* The Ottoman UU is pretty potent, too bad that civ never survives that long.
[23:58] *MasterZen* yep
[23:58] *alva* Have you heard anything from VOX btw?
[23:58] *MasterZen* haven't you seen Beta's press releases?? hahahaha
[23:58] *GhengisFarb* I haven't heard anything outside the main forum in 3-4 days
[23:58] *alva* very good for SP games, too late for MP
[23:59] *alva* they are good
[23:59] *MasterZen* the avatar wars rule though...
[23:59] *alva* They didn't say anything about the galley in their waters???
Session Close: Mon Apr 14 00:00:00 2003

To be continued

[alva]

part deux

Session Start: Mon Apr 14 00:00:00 2003
Session Ident: #gow
[00:00] *MasterZen* Jacques Costeau is on that galley, why should they complain?
[00:01] *alva* lol
[00:01] *MasterZen* except he has some pretty neat binoculars...
[00:01] *alva* Well, you could have trained some dolphins
[00:02] *MasterZen* GoW prefers sharks
[00:02] *alva* not squid?
[00:03] *alva* ah, you weren't in the team yet
[00:03] *alva* (to understand the squid thing)
[00:03] *MasterZen* note to self: shall have to enquire on the squid joke
[00:03] *alva*
[00:03] *alva* Why didn't you join GS btw
[00:04] *MasterZen* I made a tradeoff
[00:04] *alva* you were about to be admitted
[00:04] *GhengisFarb* Squid is the national food of Roleplay
[00:04] *MasterZen* I said I would join GoW this game, and the strat forum team in the next PTWDG
[00:04] *GhengisFarb* And Coat of Arms.
[00:04] *alva*
[00:04] *MasterZen* since I joined well after it started I feel i would be more useful to the smaller team
[00:05] *alva* we are not that big, just many people use the icon
[00:05] *GhengisFarb* We're much smaller than we appear
[00:05] *MasterZen* like MegloManiac? hahaha
[00:05] *alva* meglomaniac for one
[00:05] *alva* lol
[00:06] *alva* I'm glad other teams know, he is not on the team :relieved:
[00:06] *MasterZen* that guy had no shame..
[00:06] *alva* no he hasn't
[00:06] *MasterZen* look at the bright side, if you had accepted him you could've had like the entire family in
[00:06] *alva* lololol
[00:07] *alva*
[00:07] *alva* we refused another one like him earlier..
[00:07] *alva* flash?
[00:08] *alva* Later he joined vox for a couple of weeks
[00:08] *MasterZen* then left?
[00:08] *alva* ok, when would you like to get an answer on this?
[00:08] *alva* yep, he got bored
[00:09] *MasterZen* do you think your team will really consider this proposal?
[00:10] *alva* Well, I can't say no, just by myself
[00:10] *alva* But like I said, I doubt, they will go for it
[00:10] *MasterZen* "they" as in your teammates?
[00:10] *alva* Us being honorable, not lieing etc..
[00:11] *alva* yes re: team
[00:12] *MasterZen* a lie is only a lie until the truth surfaces if it ever does...
[00:12] *alva* The best thing IMO, is to send a PM, explaining what you want, when, and what you would be willing to give in return for it
[00:13] *MasterZen* you can always bribe Trip to twist the truth... say like threatening him from staying in your forum.. hahaha
[00:13] *alva* nope, it's always a lie...
[00:13] *alva* Believe me, I've 'corrected' on a few occassion
[00:13] *MasterZen* ok, send it to you or to Shiber?
[00:14] *alva* I didn't take the 'honarable' thing as literal as most do
[00:14] *MasterZen* hmmm...
[00:14] *alva* Send to Shiber, he our official GOW ambas atm (but you can send it to me too, if yo want)
[00:15] *MasterZen* sure, we'll draft a proposal ASAP and send it to you guys
[00:15] *alva*
[00:15] *alva* ok, thats's it?
[00:16] *alva* see you
[00:16] *MasterZen* nothing can be more important than that
[00:16] *alva* bye
[00:16] *alva* lol
[00:16] *MasterZen* take care, bye
[00:16] *GhengisFarb* bye
[00:16] *alva* bye GF

[zeit]

I got this a week ago from HotE, my bad for not posting it here (although it doesn't say muchabout concrete issues- namely Chivalry).

Zeit, ambassador of the Gatherig Storm.

Welcome back Zeit, it is good to hear from you again.

I will post this in our forum and get back to you with some answers ASAP.
I do believe that we can return to normal trading relations very soon. I am quite certain, the state of war between us is only a temporary thing.

With our recent shake up of adminstration within the GoW team, I am not sure if I remain your ambassador. I will check into this as well.

From what we hear, you have been very successful within the war. May your good fortune continue

Here is a little internal GoW role playing news....
I have been allocated my own city.
Fortunately, I complained that I could never remember how to spell Liechtenstein, GF graciously renamed it "The Hill"
Thus my new title...King of the Hill

Good Luck

Hot_Enamel, King of the Hill
For the Glory of War

[zeit]

A reminder to HotE:

Dear Hot_Enamel, King of the Hill and consul of the Glory of War Republic.

Finnaly the world is turning again. I trust that you don't take Al-Sah... eh, BetaHound's preposterous reasonings behind the cause of all this- after all, it was NYE, one of our founding fathers of our nations that has helped in the restoration of normalcy.

I hope all is well in The Hill, you certainly have a nice view from up there. I also hope that you will retain your post as an ambassador, for I have certainly enjoyed our correspondence, and felt it's positive contribution to the relations between our two nations.

More good news have come from the front, as our troops are continuing to inflict loses upon the Voxian foe, I'm sorry i can not tell you more than that for now, but i'm sure you understand.

I have yet to recieve a response regarding the issues I have raised in my earlier message: most importantly Peace agreement and the Chivalry deal.

Please reply as soon as you can

Cordially
Zeit, ambassador for the Gathering Storm.

[zeit]

A note from HotE- Master Zen will be the new ambassador, or so it seems.

Zeit.. Just a quick note..

Our team became very inactive during the crash.
We are slow in getting things back in order.

The deal is still AOK.

I will slap Master Zen into action for you

Regs

Enamel

My reply

Hot_Enamel, King of the Hill.

I take it that Master Zen will replace you, and is going to be the GS ambassador. I'm looking forward for working together with him. It's been great working with you, don't hesitate to come and ask for a recommendation letter if you need it .

Glad to hear that the deal is still in effect, as far as your team sees it.

Hope to hear from you again soon.

Zeit, ambassador for the Gathering Storm.

[zeit]

A reply, quite encouraging (if we take their word, that is ).

Zeit, ambassador for the Gathering Storm.

It seems our illustrious Foreign Affairs leader (Master Zen) has got himself banned from our boards



Due to my timezone difficulties, I think my team as a whole wanted to keep on top of the GS/Vox situation, and it was too hard for me to be on-line at the same time. It seemed easier for me to step down from my ambassadorship, while the war remains the hot topic.
Master Zen did indeed say he would like to deal with you guys direct. My short replies were more to ensure I did not step on any toes.

Anyway...he has sent word by pigeon that the Chivalry deal remains, and we will most likely accept peace.
The war thing was more to keep Vox off our back. They would be less likely to turn attention onto us if they thought we were at war with you.

Mater Zen should be back soon. Once the war is over, and attention is diverted elsewhere, I would not be surprised is I am given back my post

Congrats of your war victories...leave a few wonders for us

Regards

Hot_Enamel
King of the Hill
For the Glory of War

[zeit]

After a short message sent to MZ. I got this from him:

Greetings Zeit!

Although Hot_Enamel was stepping down from his post from awhile ago, he had still been handling GS-GoW correspondence.

Various of our current members are currently occupied with RL business and will come back in a few weeks. In the meantime feel free to contact me personally for anything related to the diplomacy between our teams until we appoint another ambassador.

Best regards,
-Master Zen
Consul of Foreign Affairs

I replied with this, hopefully not against the will of the team members...

Hello Master Zen!

Thank you for your quick reply- it certainly encourages me that I have someone to talk to...

Since interest in the game is no at its lowest since the begining, you can probably imagine what an unemployed diplomat I am.
With most teams concentrating on keeping pace with the turn cycle and making those life and death decision- there is little time left for day to day diplomacy. Hopefully this will now change with regard to the GoW.

And now, to business. You may or may not know, but when we signed the Feudalism trade agreement, we also talked about a future tech trade, with you selling Chivalry to us. This was the issue I was talking about with Hot_Enamel when he told me he would be stepping down. He mentioned that as far as he knows, the deal is still intact, but what he didn't tell me was when your tedh is due to be researched.

If you can spare us the infomation, I'd be most glad.

Many Thanks
Zeit, ambassador for the Gathering Storm.

[zeit]

An answer from MZ:

Hello Zeit!

Sorry for not replying so fast this time, problem is I am extremely busy finding an "official" ambassador to your team, as I have told you I am dealing with all 5 teams personally and it is quite a burden, especially also considering my ISDG responibilities. I hope GF and donegeal come back from their "vacations" soon!

Anyway, about Chivalry, I haven't checked the last save personally but I believe the estimated time of arrival for it is about 10-13 turns give or take, I'm not very sure but I don't recall it being much more than that.

Well, must keep on anwering more PMs... (I love and hate this job at the same time)

Best regards to you and your team
-Master Zen


P.S. Tell Arrian to watch out for the Womynists, they're dangerous

My reply:

Hello Master Zen!

Thanks for the info.

You just remind me of myself a couple of months ago- juggling with FAM duties and other obligations and activities.

And you're right- it's a love and hate affair. Just take a breather once in a while

Please keep me up to date with any developments regarding Chivalry and the ambassadorship issue.

Yours
Zeit, ambassador for the Gathering Storm.