Turn 38

[Shiber]

IMHO, the deadline for establishing whether they are willing to trade contacts or not is when we finish researching writing. If we find that they would agree to such a deal, then we won't have to research map making and prepare to build a galley so soon, and should they decline, we might want to research MM right after Alphabet.
Finally, I wouldn't want to flood them with so many issues to discuss. Second tech trade tier, cartographic questions, trading contacts, patents, all in one bite seems too much. Let them have it bit by bit.
As for names for our workers, how does Farmer Joe sound?

[nbarclay]

I agree that having them refuse to trade us contact is our biggest danger, but on the other hand, I think we could persuade them that selling us contact is in their best interest. If our next research project is Map Making, the best Vox can hope for is to trade to us for Writing and sell it, and even that only works if the civ on the other side doesn't already have Writing when Vox makes their deal with us. (And if Vox has to offer us techs adding up to equal value before they can get Writing, that could seriously undercut their ability to get Writing in time.) A two-stage deal in which Vox trades contact and a low-cost tech for Writing in the first stage and has an agreement in place to get Code of Laws in return for Philosophy later would be similarly profitable to tech-brokering Writing, a surer thing, and much more likely to result in good relations with their neighbors. (I'm keeping the second stage as a back-up, since Vox might be willing to accept the deal without it, but that second stage would give Vox a chance to keep the trading relationship alive and profitable for at least a little while even after selling us contact.)

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Shiber

Finally, I wouldn't want to flood them with so many issues to discuss.

Earlier, BetaHound complained about my sending multiple messages when one would have sufficed, so I'm hoping addressing several issues in one message will meet with his approval. At least this saves him from trying to figure out which message I said what in (which may be what prompted his earlier complaint).

[DeepO]

Well... delaying the deal, but not so hard to show them we're weak (I wouldn't hold it for 5 turns either), should make the trade for contacts more likely from their side...

As to the second part of a deal: sure, but how does this fit with your patent comments? In your proposed message, you mention both patent and trading contacts in the same paragraph, if I'm not mistaken.

DeepO

[Shiber]

nbarclay, you've made a good point. Perhaps we should remind them that if they decline to trade contacts then they won't get any cash/tech for it, and we'll have to build a galley to meet the other civs. That would set back both our civs, while the rest of the civs continue to grow and advance.

[nbarclay]

Actually, the patent issue is in the following paragraph, but the two are definitely connected. In exchange for getting a good deal on Writing (and, in the process, getting the tech faster than thy could research it themselves), Vox would essentially give up its ability to tech broker Writing and anything we research beyond that.

As the deal stands now, it's marginal. Vox could do better tech brokering Writing if they could get it in time, but they would risk getting Writing too late to trade it for anything at all. So they may take the deal on the "a bird in the hand" principle.

Add in the second stage and the incentive is far stronger. A trade of Writing (value 8) for a value-4 tech, followed by an exchange of Code of Laws (value 10) for a Philosophy (value 6) would give them a total profit equivalent to getting Writing for free. Trying to tech-broker Writing instead would be much higher risk unless they can line up a deal in advance, and would have little chance of giving them a bigger profit.

And there's one other piece to the puzzle that I'd be inclined to offer if we have to: full exchange of all contact information. With that provision, to whatever extent we might trade Writing or some subsequent tech for further contacts, Vox could benefit from our trades.

Nathan

[DeepO]

Well... regarding the patent thing: I agree that it is a good deal for both sides, but 1) this is not explicitly said like that, and 2) other civs won't do it (RPG has already mentioned that they consider all techs their own once they get their hands on it, meaning they are free to broker it if they have a chance).

I thought you were talking about one tech, instead of all following techs, and I don't know if I agree to that. Of course, writing would be ours, thus Vox gives up something if they agree not to sell it to anyone, but after that it could very well be in our disadvantage. It's good to hear their feelings on patent issues, but we should discuss this more publicly amongst our own before we make a decision here... You still have to convince me it's good for us, I can imagine that other members have reservations as well

DeepO

[Harovan]

Turn is here. I'm going to play it now.

Sliders can be set to 3.7.0, making +3 gold this turn.

[Harovan]

Team Scores:

68 (+1) Gathering Storm
80 (+1) Demogyptica
67 (+1) Glory of War
75 (+2) Role Play
64 (+1) Vox Controli
61 (+1) Lux Invicta
80 (+3) Legoland

+3 for Lego, compensating the +1 from last turn to the usual +2 average.

[Harovan]

Turn played, as in the first post described. No surprises, this time. Power went a big edge to our favor, due to Cyclone I guess. F11 shows our not yet fully restored economy. EotS will grow next turn again. It got the chop bonus.

Turn and screenies will be sent in a couple of minutes.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
80 (+3) Legoland

Won't this ever stop?
On the other hand, we should be glad that it's Lego earning high scores and not GoW or Vox.

[Harovan]

Turn and screenshots sent.

[nbarclay]

Do I go ahead and send my diplomatic message now?

[Harovan]

Sure, do it.

[nbarclay]

Message sent.