Turn 32

[Harovan]

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- We possess 31 gold and are running 1 deficit.
- Researching Alphabet at 100%.

Urgent questions:
- none for now

Military:
- Grog fortifies at the Lookout Ridge.
- Slash explores along the west coast.
- Hack and Ouch shadow Tim and Willy.
- Crush returns to Hurricane
- Zonk moves to EotS.

Economy:
- Hurricane switches laborer to grassland.
- EotS grows to size 5, works 3 FPs and both irrigated furs.
- Worker finishes road, moves 6 to prepare for chop.

Diplomacy:
- nothing for now.

[Shiber]

Re: Turn 32

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Diplomacy:
- nothing for now.

IMHO we should already be planning our next tech trade (after the second tier of the bronze/iron deal).
Any thoughts?

[Harovan]

First we need to research our part of the deal (Alphabet).

[DeepO]

I'm hoping that by that time, we hear more from RPG (Godking only read last message yesterday). If they really are close to sending a galley, we shouldn't spend commerce on going for mapmaking. Writing, however, might be a good option anyhow.

DeepO

[Shiber]

Any chance we could sell them pottery?
I know they're researching it already, but perhaps we could come up with some kind of a deal. Though I doubt it, it would be a shame to waste an opportunity.

[DeepO]

For cash? Sounds good... but I doubt they'll go for it.

Maybe it is time to start considering what we want Vox to research... so we can later trade for it. Of course, as a middleman, they could leave all research to Civ X and us, while they just save cash... it will work as long as we don't have mapmaking, or steal / trade the contact from Vox somehow.

DeepO

[Harovan]

Turn arrived, as always when I was on the last steps to work. Somebody play it, or we wait till I return home.

[Arrian]

Re: tech research/trading...

I think the most important thing is deciding which tech we intend to research after Alphabet is done. Once we complete Alphabet, we will be trading it for IW. So we will have Pottery, CB, Masonry, BW, IW, Alphabet. Do we still intend to go for MapMaking? I think we should. But that's not something I'd want to trade, unless the trade offer was awfully juicy.

The alternatives are: Monarchy beeline, or Republic beeline. Mapmaking, useful as it will be for other purposes, will slow us from getting to a better form of government.

However, if we do go up the republic angle, writing is next up, and that allows contact trading and embassies... if we feel like really becoming partners with Vox, we could propose some sort of trade like writing + pottery for a tech and contact w/the other team they've met.

As for the military moves SR has layed out above, they're fine by me.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Oh, one other thing...

If we do go for MapMaking, we can use one of the coastal cities we build to take a shot at either the Colossus or the Great Lighthouse (in other words, if we take the chance of trying to build one of them, and get beaten to it, we won't necessarily be screwed, because we will be able to switch to the other one).

Another advantage to the writing angle, however, is the ability to establish embassies so we can see people's capitols.

-Arrian, throwin' those options out there.

[DeepO]

I've been thinking on wonder building a lot lately... maybe we should revisit it. I don't think anyone has started on a wonder yet, or they should have gotten the settler from a hut like we did. So, starting now, or very soon is stil an option, for any wonder we want. (GL for instance)

RPG has said before jthat they are not interested in the lighthouse or the Colossus, but it is very possible that they made the deal with someone else to not go for those two, and focus on pyramids or GL...

DeepO

[Randolph]

I think with the possible exception of the G library, REXing is more important than a wonder at the moment (As much as I would like to have one).

P.S. I've been pretty much keeping up with this, just haven't had time to post. Thought I'd say something to show I'm still around

[Harovan]

Turn played. Nothing special, all as was planned. Screenies (zoom, f11, power) soon.

[Harovan]

Team scores:

62 (+2) Gathering Storm
72 (+2) Demogyptica
62 (+1) Glory of War
67 (+1) Role Play
60 (+1) Vox Controli
55 (+2) Lux Invicta
68 (+2) Legoland

[Arrian]

DeepO,

The problem as I see it is that we have a potentially dangerous neighbor. If we had bumped into Lego, I would probably advocate a GLibrary attempt.

But we have a neighbor with a 4/2/1 unit and unknown intentions. Therefore, I was thinking that going all-out for one of the big wonders is not really a viable option.

But the Colossus & G.Lighthouse are smaller. Additionally, I've often (in SP, of course) taken a shot at one of those, lost, and left that city building a "palace" and then snatched a later wonder (like the Hanging Gardens, or even sometimes the GL).

EotS at size 12 it will be solid... if my caculations are right, 21 shields/turn if it's allowed to use all of the best tiles, so I understand the temptation to go for one of the biggies. But that would really hurt our REX... unless we totally neglect our military... which as I pointed out above really isn't an option with an Immortal-armed human opponent nearby.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Hmm... speaking of wonders (you've got me going now), we may want to start thinking about the most important wonder of all: the FP.

Do we build one close to EotS and hope to rush a palace move with a leader? IMO, this is hugely risky in this sort of game, particularly with a non-militaristic civ.

Do we build one near our northern border (wherever that ends up being) and then hope to take out Vox? Less risk, less reward.

The lands to our north are fairly poor. The jungle area, which I'm not at all sure we will settle before Vox does, has potential, it requires a lot of worker turns to develop. The rest of the north is pretty bad: desert, hills, mountains, some plains... ugh.

But I don't really see a viable alternative to building the FP up in that general area. We can't count on a great leader from warfare. We are not militaristic, and human opponents will not send out units 1 at a time for us to slaughter with our carefully hoarded elite units. Leader generation, I think, will be more difficult. Thus, I firmly believe we're going to have to build the FP manually. If we're going to do that, we need to think about where we intend to do it, and get started on it as soon as possible. Obviously, before we can actually start the FP itself, we need 1/2 the OCN of cities (on a standard map, chieftain level, that's what, 10 cities?), but we can use something else as a placeholder until we hit that number (granary, for instance).

So, the question is where? From a military standpoint, I've argued against beelining for a northern border city up by the jungle. From a short-term economic standpoint, settling closer to home is better as well. However, that's the best terrain available up north.

Or maybe we just don't build the damn thing? Arg, I'm rambling now. Curse the CivGods who gave us such crappy northern terrain.

-Arrian