Project: 'Big Water-Carrying Thing'

[Shiber]

I believe it was originally Sir Ralph that proposed this idea. The basis is that we create a sort of aqueduct, made out of irrigated tiles, from our own 'River of Tears' all the way up to the northern boundary of the jungle belt (or another location that we decide while discussing this matter) and let Vox continue this aqueduct all the way to their homeland.
As you know, Vox is without fresh water and they have to drink smelly salty water, which in turn affects their minds and causes them to do all sorts of silly things such as blocking landbridges and stalling diplomatic procedures. They may be very interested in this project, but first we have to fully form it in our own forum.
The goal of this project is to do what countless alchemists have failed - turn water into gold. We can demand a certain amount of gpt from Vox for as long as the project is under construction, as well as other forms of payment, such as a slave (which we can promise to return when the project ends) or a tech.
The end result of this project, should is succeed, is that we'll be richer and Vox will be, well... less smelly, or at least less thirsty.

What are your opinions on this matter?

[alva]

I think it is a very good idea, but it is difficult to put a prize on it.

What is something like that worth..?

[Harovan]

It was meant as an opportunity for a deal in the future. I think it's too early to begin with it, but we should not lose the deal out of view.

[alva]

Is the tile next to Thadeus ingame seen as a lake or coast?

I think it is coast, but if it's not, then all this is not needed.

[DeepO]

Well, I would propose it to them at the earlies possible time, as the faster it happens, the faster we can get advantages from it too.

Just to compile all info in one thread, this is what I proposed:

They supply us with slaves, for each 2 slaves they give us, we agree to add one, and work the fastest possible path towards them. Irrigation will be last thing to get improved, after clearing possible jungle, and roading the tiles. So, we both have advantage of it.
It's up to Vox when to start this (although a small warning would be appreciated, we should add at least one worker ourselves), and they can decide on the duration, by giving us multiples of 2 (4 slaves will work double as fast, as we would add 2 workers ourselves). After water is supplied, we are free to do witht he slave as we wish, we can sell them back, add them to our cities, or whatever we want to do with them.

Nathan already pointed out that if they were to start clearing the jungle from their side, it would go a lot faster, but that is no deal to us: we don't gain anything if they do it alone. We supply water on the sole promise that it is good for us too. If they want to speed things up by starting from the other side: fine, but without at least 2 slaves, no water will get transported out of our territory.

Re: urgency: it would surprise me if they would be very fast to do it, but the faster, the better. An irrigated road North would be very good for our Northward expansion, which will most likely start in 15 turns or so. That's the only reason why I propose to add one worker per 2 slaves.

Oh, and if they want to give something else instead of slaves, they can, but I think a minimum of 1 slave / worker is appropriate. After all, we give them growth, so they will need to give growth to us as well.

DeepO

[zeit]

Wait a minute!!!

We are talking about growth enhancing improvement- the one thing it is absolutely critical to have Vox behind in. We can't just offer it is to them, let's keep our cards hidden for a while- It won't be a while before some dispute over land might arise, and this might be used by us as an item for trade- water for land, and it's also logical, [GS] you need food to feed your people, and fields to grow food in- why not let us (for the right price) connect you to our network of irrigation, so that you can prosper without they need for more territory, and our current dispute can be resolved with mutual agreement (hint, hint).

If presented now, than please without specific conditions, only as a "teaser"- let them consider it, say that we will as well, and we will set our proce in the future.

Don't let them feel inferior now, and don't let them fantasies about taking a hold of our fresh water supply. This should be discussed later, in some inter teams committee, and also be used in our wide effort to delay the Voxian advance towards the southern edges of the Isthums.

[Shiber]

How about this: we lease them our workers. 3 gpt for each Stormian worker working on the aqueduct, or they can give us slaves to do the job, which they'll either let us keep, or pay a leasing fee of 1 gpt for each slave, with the promise that the slaves will be returned when the project is finished.
In addition, Vox can decide if they want just the irrigation or a road as well. They can also have status reports + screenshots (we'll make sure that we don't reveal classified information)

P.S. We must remind them that we are an industrious civ, and as such our workers work twice as fast as theirs, and our slaves work as fast as their domestic workers.

[alva]

Hmm, Shiber , Vox is industrious too

[zeit]

I think you are missing the point of this, beyond the obvious monetary value of having irrigation in your territory- the effect on growth is a great one- we just can't let Vox have it without making sure their growth is cut down by either territorial compromises, or slaves, or maybe both. We just can't sum it up in X-gpt for a worker, and we wan't Vox to have the commerce to trade techs with us, while limiting their food and shield potential.

[Dominae]

As Sir Ralph said, it is far too early to seriously consider this plan yet, although it is something to keep in mind.

Once we do get around to negotiating this, we should engineer to the deal so that the Voxian Workers are clearing the Jungle, and not ours, due to the chance of disease. Even if they realise that this is disadvantageous to them, I think it is a condition that is more than fair given the circumstances.


Dominae

[asleepathewheel]

I agree that it is too early.

I like the inventiveness, however. This would be an extremely long term project, and may serve to stabilize relations. how long would it take to get water there? Also, do they desire it? they will only have a couple cities south of thadeus, so do they care?

[Shiber]

Dominae: I didn't know field workers can catch disease in PTW.
Asleepatthewheel: we can bring water all the way to the Isthmus and Vox can continue the aqueduct and bring water to their entire homeland.

[Harovan]

We should by no means do it in the REX phase, for obvious reasons.

[Shiber]

Agreed.
We should definitely form a concensus on this plan and have it ready for as soon as we want to bring up the issue with Vox.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Shiber
Dominae: I didn't know field workers can catch disease in PTW.

I'm pretty sure this is the case, but now that you raise the question, I would like to know with 100% certainty. Anyone have the answer?


Dominae