Turn 30

[Harovan]

By the way, this issue can still be discussed. All we did so far, is showing a little bit goodwill, just like they did. We can still go back or even put up a blockade, if they decline the trade deal.

[zeit]

I have no problem with backing up, when the time is right, if we bring up the troops again if the deal is blown, then we act like bullies, it's not that critical, but i still don't trust the Voxians. Withrawing to form a real blockade is fine by me, but please= don't leave only one warrior standing there, this is by all means too dangerous- have you seen Vox evacuate the Isthmus- no. So why should we clear the blockade by leaving only one warrior on the lookout?

[Harovan]

Turn sent. So are screenshots.

Zeit: This thread has been up a day now, with the withdrawal issue marked as urgent question. There have been several opinions in this argument, but finally the suggestion to leave observers at critical points (but not too close) and to suggest Vox to leave observers too, won the debate.

It is not my job to meet this decision, but since our military leaders are absent, I take it for them. And please understand, that I can't always spend hours on a single turn, only because we discuss in the turn time matters, that should have be discussed long ago (and in fact, have been discussed).

[DeepO]

Zeit, I'm with Sir Ralph here. As one of the members who said that we need to show some serious good will, this can only help. I will object if it jeopardizes our safety, so their two scouts should be shadowed, defending EotS by their passive presence close to the scouts.

Re: screenies: F11 shows that Legopolis is on top, while we have more population, the only possible reason I see for that is that they built a temple. We should mark 2590 BC, as it is most likely the beginning of the cultural race. No worries yet though, they are more then likely too far away.

power graph: I'm a bit worried by the bump in Vox's power. If you compare it with the bump we had with our 100% cash (11 gold?) a few turns back, it looks very similar for two turns in a row. But, we made money this turn too, so it is in no way possible that Vox made double the amount of us. Only deduction possible is that they build another unit, most likely a regular spear (as a warrior wouldn't bump the graph compared to our gold) while they had science to 100%, or a warrior and their gold to 100%. If this is true, it should make them equally powerful military as us, so Sir Ralph, could you look to the F3 screen, and tell us what the advisor is saying?

I'm not sure what to think of it. I hope that it is a spear they built, and not a warrior, hoping to upgrade him later on. If so, they are saving cash. But I would never spend 40 gold on a reg immortal, when I could get vets instead.

Last, remote possibility: they sold something to Civ X, and got cash in return.

DeepO

[Harovan]

F3 says average.

[alva]

[vox]
Ok, we need more time, let's tell then we will pull our warriors back, they need to be upgraded anyway.
In the mean build a few roads save some money, have their units back off a few tiles. The less warnig they have the better, the more chance our surprise attack will have to succeed.
[/vox]

[DeepO]

[vox]
Damn... only a tiny problem. we need a lot more cash. every regular (!) immortal is going to take 40 gold, which at the current rate we need 5 turns to gather. If we want any decent force to impress instead of annoy GS, we will have to be on 0 research for the next 50 turns...
[/vox]



DeepO

[DeepO]

[vox]
Oh, and has anyone found time yet to build a barracks in that capital of ours?
[/vox]

DeepO

[nbarclay]

Sir Ralph, I can't even begin to understand your reasoning process in your decision this turn. It was only what, one or two turns ago that you kept lecturing me on how we have to survive before Alphabet can do us any good? Yet here you are, switching us away from a military tech to a peaceful one and guaranteeing that we'll lose a bunch of gold if we switch back without a promise from Vox that the trade deal will go through.

Worse, you've made a joke out of my telling Vox that if they reject our offer, it will be Alphabet, not Iron Working, that gets delayed so seriously. (Or at least thrown away a turn or two of gold, depending on whether they accept the first part of the deal, if we make my words true.) I thought you didn't trust Vox, yet now you're trusting Vox to do something they haven't even fully agreed to yet.

Could you please explain this big turn-around in how much of a threat you seem to view Vox as?

Nathan

[alva]

[vox]
It takes 12-15 turns for our warriors to get back, chopping will help the new city to barracks.

How much gold do we make from those past and present trade deals to civx?
[/vox]

[DeepO]

Woah, Nathan! Please calm down...

DeepO

[Harovan]

So what would you have suggested me to do? Wait one more turn? Reject the deal and crank up Bronze to 100%? And where the heck have you been when I asked for your advice hours before I sent the turn?

I'm beginning to get sick of all this. Who wants to do my job, go ahead!

[DeepO]

Come on, guys, lets keep it friendly. It is not the discussion that is the issue here, we're all friends with common interests, and not kids that fight over a candy bar.

You both had tremendous impact on how we got so far, there is no reason to destroy that. I understand that everyone thinks his opinion is the only truth, but so far it has been going smooth, please let us keep that spirit.

DeepO

[alva]

Wow, what happened here ???

This is just a game, people.
Let's have some good discusions/debates, but there's no need to fight!

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
So what would you have suggested me to do? Wait one more turn? Reject the deal and crank up Bronze to 100%? And where the heck have you been when I asked for your advice hours before I sent the turn?

I'm beginning to get sick of all this. Who wants to do my job, go ahead!

Sir Ralph, I understand that yours is a difficult job, but mine is too with the extra duties I've taken on. I didn't actually get to sleep "for the night" until after noon today my time thanks to trying to get the message to Vox tweaked to the team's satisfaction. I'm normally a "night owl" in my hours anyhow, but that's getting a bit ridiculous even for me, even with my having gotten a bit of a nap earlier. By that point, I just didn't have it in me to go through complex analysis to plan for every contingency.

What I wish you'd done (and tried to suggest you do if Vox's response was something complex, although I hadn't expected their response to be silence) was wait. That would have given Vox more time to respond and me time to wake up and get involved in the decision. Even if it would have meant putting the game on hold while you got your night's sleep, that wouldn't have killed us, and it would have given Vox still more time to respond.

I think in the future, if you're this short on input again (including no input at all from the scholia heads for the specific situation encountered), the best course of action would be to wait. With any luck at all, that would take a lot of the pressure off you to make a decision without adequate input, and it would give people who are sleeping or otherwise occupied by real life a chance to chip in before it's too late. That's doubly important at as critical a juncture as this one.

Nathan