Dimplo Scholia: - Vox Controli - comments

[alva]

I was looking at some older screenies and noticed that it took VOX 10 turns to go from size one to size 2 and are currently 7 turns on a size 2 level.
Not really important, I know, just thought I'd mention it.

[Shiber]

This just comes to approve what they told us of their home land.
And to think that they let a vital worker leave their territory in order to build a military road...

I suppose they'd be desperate for growth by now. Should we propose to them the aqueduct deal?

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Shiber
This just comes to approve what they told us of their home land.
And to think that they let a vital worker leave their territory in order to build a military road...

I suppose they'd be desperate for growth by now. Should we propose to them the aqueduct deal?

I'm still not convinced that it's a military road rather than a "get our settler to those beautiful grasslands with shields" road, at least in the short term. We'll see whether the worker keeps roading toward us or whether he starts improving tiles around the potential city site.

[alva]

They might go for a (short) jungle road to settle near the wheat/fish.
They are gonna do what we discussed too, Settle as close as possible towards us and then backfill.

Settling 9 from Grog(?) is more realistic though, I guess

[DeepO]

I don't have access to the screenies here, but keep in mind that what is for us a good position doesn't mean it will be good for them. Settling too close to the mountains can have serious military consequences, certainly when you more or less know it will be the border.

Also: if their second city is also producing a settler, there is a possibility that Vox has 2 settlers ready in a few turns: 1 from the capital, the other from the second city. If they didn't have food bonuses on their plains, they shouldn't be so quick, but it could be true. So, they don't need to backfill: their first city can come at the Isthmus, the second at the edge of the jungle, and the third can more or less reach the wheat and fish (if they spread their cities out). Fastest eta on that third city is over 25 turns, so we've got some time to settle things ourselves. But, as we don't have a road to there, and they have, we will lose quite a bit of our advantage.

Re: telling Vox the next deal will be ready in 2 turns (was it in this thread? Don't remember where I read the comment, it belongs here anyway): No, as long we don't need their tech for our research, I would wait one or 2 turns, and only say it then. They should not have a precise idea of where our research is, if they know it within 2 tursn precise it's more then enough.

DeepO

[Shiber]

Originally posted by nbarclay
I'm still not convinced that it's a military road rather than a "get our settler to those beautiful grasslands with shields" road, at least in the short term. We'll see whether the worker keeps roading toward us or whether he starts improving tiles around the potential city site.

There's sense in that. They may be thinking, heck, our capital city and the surrounding area sucks, let's not waste time on improving it and go straight ahead to building a better city in the grasslands and improving it.
I guess only time will tell.

[Theseus]

Fair enough that this road might be driven (no pun intended) by economic concerns...

But we must be prepared for the worst.

[nbarclay]

Proposed message to Vox, to be sent after we play our turn:

Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,

At long last, the time has come for the second part of our technological exchange. Our scholars have worked out the basic shape of the letters of our new alphabet, and while they would keep fiddling around with the last few details forever if we let them (you know how scholars can be), we have told them that they need to move on to other tasks. (What good is an alphabet, after all, if they don’t figure out how to use it to write?)

We are still just short of a point where we could present a formal offer of Alphabet through the Interface of the Mystic Game, but if you could initiate the agreement by offering Iron Working on your end of the Interface, I feel confident that we will be able to present Alphabet on our end immediately after. Then, once you indicate to the Interface that you accept the deal, the first major trade agreement between our peoples will be brought to a successful conclusion.

Speaking of Writing, our people would be very interested in some sort of additional trade agreement once we learn that skill. Our fondest wish is to gain full diplomatic contact with other nations, and our people are ready to offer a proposal in that regard. Once our researchers finish learning how to write, we would offer you that knowledge in exchange for helping us to establish formal contact with your immediate neighbor plus some minor, far less valuable technology that you have researched. You would benefit from an exchange of knowledge on terms highly favorable to you, and we would benefit by obtaining contact beyond your borders more quickly than would be possible otherwise. (For that matter, once you learn how to write, you may also be able to arrange contact with more distant nations.)

If we arrange such an agreement, however, we would like it to include “patent” protection (as our first lawyers contemplate calling it when they someday write their Code of Laws) on the technologies involved. Under the concept of a “patent,” each side would retain an exclusive right to sell or trade the technology it researched for some limited time, say twenty turns, after the exchange is completed.

There is no need for urgency in working out the details of an agreement involving Writing, since our Writing project is not expected to be finished quickly. But it seems prudent to go ahead and let you know what we are thinking in order to reduce the risk of duplication of research efforts. Please consider our proposal and let us know what you think when you get a chance.

While I am writing anyhow (and given your fondness for the number One), there are some other matters that seem worth addressing. First we have still not established who the other nation you have formally met is. Last we heard, you were asking them for consent for you to tell us their identities, and we remain understandably curious.

Second, although you have told us about the lands you call North Estonia, you have indicated that there is a third part of the land mass connected to North Estonia. Our cartographers remain highly curious about that land, and as I indicated earlier (although it may have gotten lost amidst the flood of more urgent issues), it would be easier to determine what should be regarded as fair eventual borders between our peoples if we knew more about those other lands.

And third, the road you are building near Lookout Ridge (as we call the mountain Grog is using as his observation post) has raised some eyebrows among our people. There are those who fear (as much as it embarrasses me to say so), that even in spite of your words of peace, you are building it as a route through which to invade us. My own thought is that you are perhaps preparing the way to build a city northeast of Lookout Ridge, but it would set certain people’s minds at ease if you would tell us of your intentions. As Wisdom 4:7 says, “Ignorance breeds fear, but the fruit of knowledge is hope.”

These are all the matters I can think of at this time, and anything I have forgotten should be able to keep for a while longer. My best wishes for your health, and for that of your nation.

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[DeepO]

Good message, although I'm not certain about the trade deal right now...

Further, patents? Of course, you can try, but I don't think they'll go for it, certainly not for 20 turns.

Last comment: they haven't said that the Civ X's territory is connected, or just an island visible from our continent. You ask about the connected piece of land... wouldn't it be best to start asking if they can be reached on foot, and only then ask for specific geo-info?

DeepO

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by DeepO
Good message, although I'm not certain about the trade deal right now...

Further, patents? Of course, you can try, but I don't think they'll go for it, certainly not for 20 turns.

Last comment: they haven't said that the Civ X's territory is connected, or just an island visible from our continent. You ask about the connected piece of land... wouldn't it be best to start asking if they can be reached on foot, and only then ask for specific geo-info?

BetaHound's message describing their land mass included the words, "And lastly, it connects to another landmass to the east." Either he got his wording wrong, or there's something else connected up there.

[Theseus]

Excellent message.

[Harovan]

Yes, it's good and about time to send it.

[Arrian]

[Arrian]

AHH!! It's a muppet on drugs!

[DeepO]

Originally posted by nbarclay
BetaHound's message describing their land mass included the words, "And lastly, it connects to another landmass to the east." Either he got his wording wrong, or there's something else connected up there.

True, but we had so many counterindications that I'm willing to believe he just got his wording wrong.

- RPG said we're alone
- RPG said Civ X could see Vox from across the sea
- Vox doesn't need any defense on the Civ X side
- we haven't seen any scout of Civ X

I wouldn't send a message in which you assume betahound was right, it might be a diversion. Better to ask them directly about it, and see what their response is. Then we know for sure, instead Vox still being able to avoid the topic.

DeepO