Turn 23

[DeepO]

Arrian: Next city should go South, while North gets roaded. We have little to gain from settling site #1 (in the desert of tears) fast, as there won't be any production. #3 OTOH will certainly be helped if it is a few turns faster. If we get a road up North, we will be able to settle cities there fast if we see Vox moving in.

DeepO

[DeepO]

MSS: we didn't decide to build the pyramids, certainly not in EotS. It's a prebuild for a granary, so that we can start building settlers at double speed, starting in 5 turns from now.

DeepO

[alva]

btw Deepo, if we want to control forest cut bonusses couldn't we just play around with the wonders somewhat...?

[Dominae]

Whoa! I missed a big disucssion here.

Concerning Settler/Workers pumps, I've used them before as you describe Nathan, but you seem to be more confident with them than I am. If you can build Workers in Eye in between Settlers and not lose any time, Food or Production (especially time!), great!

Bah, this is too theoretical, I might as well get my hands dirty...Nathan, DeepO, how about we all perform different test runs from the current turn and compare how far we are along in say 40 or so turns? I will concentrate on Settlers, and you two could concentrate on your own plans (assuming they are somewhat different). Things are getting complex enough now that exhaustive testing is impossible. By using 3 test scenarios we should get a good idea of what is best, or at least obtain something concrete to debate with.

Yes, I know I'm not an Economist, but with your permissions I would like to help out for a bit. This is more interesting than I thought it would be and I need something to do before school gets into full swing.

Concerning Warriors, I believe the safest choice is to shadow their units and wander around the isthmus with Grog (but not too far). Planning to defend against an attack by putting 2 Warriors in all our cities is excessive at this point, and strains our economic resources. We should be fine.

Next city should go to the site 2-1-2 from Eye of the Storm, IMO.


Dominae

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by DeepO
MSS: we didn't decide to build the pyramids, certainly not in EotS. It's a prebuild for a granary, so that we can start building settlers at double speed, starting in 5 turns from now.

DeepO

Thanks for the clarfication. I have been missing some of the finer points of our statregy as I have been kinda busy as FAM of the SP Demo game.

Off topic-
My term is up in a couple of weeks and I do not intend to fill another position. I would rather move forward and be more active here.

BTW Shiber, I will back you up as FAM in that game. If you need a deputy, I could help...

Mss

[Dominae]

Also, sorry to point something out that cannot be changed, but our Worker should probably have gone to improve the tile just NW of its current location. That tile could be shared by two cities in the future (the Gold one and the Desert of Tears one), and we would have made roading to those easier. Economy of movement is very important for Workers early on.


Dominae

[DeepO]

Originally posted by alva
btw Deepo, if we want to control forest cut bonusses couldn't we just play around with the wonders somewhat...?

It will certainly be interesting to try out whether building a pyramids for 1 turn in EotS moves the shields to Hurricane, I'm not sure whether it is the wonder in Hurricane, or simply the cultural border of EotS which prevented the chopped shields to go to EotS. But it could cerrtainly be true... which would be an awesome discovery! You got me there, Alva: I was only thinking in one direction: shields to EotS. But the other way could also be possible...

DeepO

[nbarclay]

When I get a chance (may not be until tomorrow), I'm going to see whether it's practical to switch Hurricane to a wonder at strategic times and use chops to build back-to-back-to-back settlers in EotS (buying a little time to deal with tile competition in the process). Otherwise, I was thinking in terms of using the chops to speed up a barracks in Hurricane so it can serve as our major early unit factory. (In my tests, both remaining chops of shared fur tiles go to Hurricane if it's not building a wonder.)

I want Site #3 as our third city, and I'm thinking it would be good to build a granary and then a temple and use it as a second settler/worker pump (although it will take quite a while to get it going). The temple is to help deal with unhappiness since it's a low-wealth location not well suited to taking advantage of the lux slider (and of course for a general cultural benefit).

Dominae, you have my blessing and my thanks to run experiments to see how your preferred economic strategy works. I certainly meddle enough in diplomatic matters even though it's not one of my official areas. And I'll be interested to see how your results compare with mine over the long haul.

Nathan

[DeepO]

Dominae: do you have a scenario / save with the horses on the right place? If so, I'll certainly want to give it a go, and see where I end. But do make a believeable run, with some added troops for Vox. Oh, and if possible, set research to 0 after pottery, so we have a better idea on how much commerce is generated.

BTW, I'm not an economist either, at least not officially. I'm a diplomat, and still hesitation on my other choice But other then the influence of the heads and certain specialised discussions, I don't see such a segragation in our team... which is not that bad, as long as we keep it working.

DeepO

[alva]

I must I didn't know this either until did that Pyramid test. I allways assumed the shields went
1.to the most nearby city
2. eugh random
never thought it could be culture or something else (wonder) that would influence this mechanism.
(might try this later)

[Dominae]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Dominae, you have my blessing and my thanks to run experiments to see how your preferred economic strategy works. I certainly meddle enough in diplomatic matters even though it's not one of my official areas. And I'll be interested to see how your results compare with mine over the long haul.

Thanks! I'll post my results here when I'm done, and send screenshots if you want them (might be necessary). My strategy is simple: maximize Settler output. We'll see if this gets us further ahead than our current plans.

Concerning Forest-chopping, in a test I ran yesterday, I set up production such that both Eye and Hurricane would benefit from the 10 Shields. Eye got one chop to help with a Settler, and Hurricane got one to hurry a Barracks. This makes things a little less focused, but I did not know about the Wonder effect then.


Dominae

[DeepO]

Originally posted by nbarclay
(In my tests, both remaining chops of shared fur tiles go to Hurricane if it's not building a wonder.)

Well, no need to test whether wonderbuilding will prevent chops to go to Hurricane, I tested that before. How this can be used is up to you however, but perhaps the chops + all fps can do wonders to faster settler building.

I want Site #3 as our third city, and I'm thinking it would be good to build a granary and then a temple and use it as a second settler/worker pump (although it will take quite a while to get it going). The temple is to help deal with unhappiness since it's a low-wealth location not well suited to taking advantage of the lux slider (and of course for a general cultural benefit).

Hmmm... we got 2 forests there... it will take a long time to get going. Wouldn't a granary be enough, suplemented with a warrior, and some lux? By the time you build another temple, you could also build a settler which settles an incense... same effect for that moment.

Hear me, advocating not to build culture

DeepO

[DeepO]

Hmmm... Maybe we shouldn't get too excited with the wonder-prevents-chops-going-the-wrong-way strat... what if it was random? Dominae, if you saw it going once to Hurricane, once to EotS (with Hurricane at the same spot), there is some random effect involved... Did anyone see it go the wrong way with the pyramid tests? (I mean, did anyone lose the shields to Hurricane while the pyramids were building?)

DeepO

[Dominae]

If a Temple is not necessary in Eye, it should not be necessary in the city at site 3, right?


Dominae

[DeepO]

Not necessarily, EotS has more commerce (river), which we could use with the lux slider more effeciently. I'm not certain on how much slider we'll need (I guess only when reaching size 6 in EotS, if we get the fur connected)

DeepO