Dimplomatic Scholia: Ambassador's Office - Vox Controli

[nbarclay]

Another message from BetaHound:

Good morning Nathan. Don't you just love being our neighbours? Sorry for the flood of info and stuff - but this all came upon us this weekend as well. Here is a new note just received from RolePlay. What is clear is that unless they are keeping some techs off the trading block on purpose, and I doubt it, we are collectively keeping pace with the rest of the world. Note they are trying to sell Mysticism and writing, and the contact with Neu Demogyptica. Also, recall that GoW was offering up contact with NeuD for 20 gold.

In fact, I am sure we can trade contact with you for contact with Neu D if necessary, plus some gold. You are so popular and much in demand. I still figure we can get mathematics out of someone for contact with you ....

Any indication of whether we are going to do a chat tonight - or do you want to handle this via PM.

Here is RolePlay's letter:

Diplomatic contact, and the meeting fo the tribes
My dear Friend BetaHound, representative of the great Voxians,

It is with great pleasure that after a terrible accident that kept me away from travels and work, I am once again capable of starting diplomatic contact with the Voxians.
The kingdom of the Warriors promised us that they could take our messengers to meet your people. This has pleased us greatly, as we are always eager to contact other tribes, even more a kingdom like that of yours.
Also, the warriors told us they could arrange so that your kingdom would intermediate a meeting between our people and a strange nation of the name Storm gatherers or something like this... we would like to know the specifications of such a meeting.
Also, we think that this is just a great moment to prepare a strong relationship between our nations.
We ask that the Almighty Voxians consider the following:
Technology trade: we ask that your Wisemen list the knowledges the Voxians dominate, so that we can set up a deal. We prefer to exchange knowledge, but if not, we will be happy to sell the Voxians Writing for 100 gold nuggets,Mysticism for 75 gold nuggets or we could arrange a meeting between the Arabs and the Voxians for 75 gold nuggets
We ask for a non-aggression pact of 30 turns so that we can put into paper what is already set in talk. We also are willing to give your nation the status of most favored trade partner, and we would like to know what deals the great Voxians offer to us.

Now I shall bid you farewell, as I have to start preparing the gifts that I shall take personally to His Lordship johnmiller.

Until soon, my friend!
Nuclearis Winterius II,
Diplomat

Talk to you soon. Cheers! Beta.

[nbarclay]

I sent the following to BetaHound to decline his suggestion of another chat:

After last time, I'm hesitant to use chat for anything more than informal exploration of possibilities or working out details where policy has already been decided (except maybe on a true emergency basis). We're a big team with fairly diverse viewpoints, and we learned the hard way (with a few ruffled feathers along the way) that the people who show up for a chat aren't necessarily a representitive sample.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Message to Vox to clarify our tech trading arrangement:

Greetings BetaHound, Jon, and People of Vox Controli,

While trying to address the trade situation, we of Gathering Storm realized that no formal agreement has ever been drawn up regarding our tech sharing arrangement. We have a general understanding to share all techs our two teams obtain at least for the time being, but that leaves room for possible misunderstandings later on. Of particular concern was making sure you do not view this as a game-long commitment on our part, since we prefer to maintain some flexibility as game conditions change. (After all, there could be more than 3500 years to go before this ends.)

Rather than risk the possibility that our teams might be working from different understandings of what has been agreed to, we've decided to defer accepting your tech offer for the moment while we try to clarify the agreement. Sir Ralph and I submitted the following proposal for ratification, and the vote thus far has come back strongly in support.

(1) Gathering Storm and Vox Controli hereby formally agree to give each other all technologies discovered, through whatever means, for the duration of this agreement.

(2) This agreement may be cancelled by either team under the following conditions. (a) The team wishing to cancel the agreement must provide a minimum of ten turns' notice. (b) Both sides, and especially the side initiating cancellation, are required to act in good faith to ensure that the treaty will be ended (or transitioned to some other arrangement) in a way that is equitable to both. Both agree not to manipulate the timing of tech discovery, tech trades with other parties, the ending of the deal itself, or any other factor in such a way as to obtain an unfair advantage over the other.

If this is acceptable to you, please re-offer the techs you offered this turn and we can pick up from there. We're expecting Writing in three turns, and can forward it to you then. (It would probably be better if you don't include Horseback Riding just yet, given the confusion that surrounded your getting it and the fact that our need for it is not urgent.) If this is too far from what you had in mind for you to consider it acceptable, we'll need to try to iron out the differences in what our teams had in mind.

In regard to suggestions for what tech you should research next, I'll have to address that issue separately. The situation is complex enough, especially with the possibility of trades in addition to what our two civs research ourselves, that we haven't yet reached a firm conclusion for what to suggest to you.

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[nbarclay]

Message to Vox regarding research directions:

Greetings BetaHound, Jon, and People of Vox Controli,

My apologies for not getting back in touch about question of what directions our research should take more quickly. The main reason plotting a research course is proving to be complicated is the question of how trades with other civs will fit into the picture. We definitely want to get Republic quickly, but we also want Literature so libraries can help speed our research along the way. After some discussion with RolePlay, it looks like there is a good possibility of a trade to them for Literature if we get Code of Laws, so it seems worthwhile to proceed with our original plan (assuming you're willing). Specifically, if you would research Philosophy while we research Code of Laws, that would set things up for us to then go full speed for Republic (freeing us both from the pain of Despotism as quickly as possible).

We regret the inconvenience that holding up your research until we can provide you with Writing (which we should have in two more turns) will cause, but assuming the Literature deal goes through (RP won't give a firm commitment in advance), the gold surplus you build up along the way could be spent fairly quickly on library maintenance. And in any case, the benefits of Republic should be well worth the inconvenience.

By the way, was your not offering the two techs again this turn deliberate, or did you not realize you would need to make the offer again to keep it open? We hope our wanting to formalize the trading partnership agreement is not causing you too much concern.

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[nbarclay]

Reply from BetaHound

Nathan - greetings and thanks. I understand the plan of action and it sounds good. Sorry about the techs. We will make sure they are sent next turn. Thanks for the reply.

Any further thoughts on Horseback Riding?

Cheers ... Beta.

[nbarclay]

Another message from BetaHound: He forgot to send us the techs, but we should now have contact with RolePlay! (His response quoted my message with the formal version of the trade deal, but I see no need to include that part.)

nathan - I just played the turn and I forgot to send them as well. Not playing dumb here guys - it is late for me, and there was stuff going on with the other teams. We will send next turn. Sorry. But the save has gone to Lux already.

Anyways - we agree to the conditions below.

Also- you should be aware that you now have contact with RolePlay. That WAS approved this turn. Also - you should have contact with GoW next turn - we are concluding a larger deal with them. Lux also wants contact, but neither of us have writing yet. I will see what I can get from the when I do. They were offering math which they say will be finished in a 'few' turns.

And incidentally, Lux is having diffciulties with Neu D. Also, we should be getting contact with Neu D as part of the larger GoW deal. Will keep you posted.

And oh yes - we have kept research on hold - stockpiling gold for research on philosophy or code of laws.

And - one warrior is heading back down the road. As our northern cities grow, we weren't certain about the difficulty level and disorder and wanted him on stand-by in case we were surprised. It is clear that the diffciulty bug has defaulted us down to an easier level.

That's it. Sorry again about the techs. You could say it is a conspiracy. Last night it was Dissident. Tonight it was me.

Anyways - cheers - good night. .... Beta.

[nbarclay]

Quick message back to Beta:

Thanks for the news. Speaking for myself (since I don't have time to run this by the rest of the team before I send it), I would strongly suggest that unless you have promises from RolePlay and GoW not to sell contact with us to the others, you should move as quickly as possible to finalize a deal with Lux and make one with ND before they get better offers elsewhere. (Please don't feel insulted if you've already thought of this, but I want to make absolutely sure you don't miss it.) It might make sense to put the Lux deal in terms of contact with us as soon as you get Writing in exchange for Mathematics when they get it, since once they have contact in hand, it would be harder for them to back out of the deal without ruining their reputation.

By the way, your getting us contact with RolePlay should be especially useful in that it cuts the cost of Writing for us. We may even get it this turn, depending on exactly how such matters fit the game mechanics.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

Another message from Beta

Nathan - thanks. Understood, And believe me, not insulted at all. Speaking for myself, we are a small team, and I tend to do a lot of the analyses. It gets to be a bit much some days, so I appreciate the input.

Hadn't thought of the impact on research time for writing. That is good.

We are hoping to get math from GoW as part of the last deal. If it goes through, we will pass it along. We had to chip in 15 gold to balance the books, so you will owe us 7.50, plus a 0.50 transaction tariff, makes it 8 gold.

GoW is under some pressure now to do the deal - given that we have given RP contact, and we loaded the table up with the tech deal as well. Will find out this turn. If they say no - then we will do the Lux deal, as you have suggested. That is what I was thinking as well.

There seems to be a fair bit of friction amongst the civs on the continent. This can only be to our - GS and Vox - long term advantage. Anything we can do to keep that friction alive and well we should consider.

RP has sent a note saying they are happy to make contact with us - and they want a 30 turn non-aggression pact.

We should also compare research rates for the next phase - it will be tricky. As soon as we get writing we will want to embark on philosophy and code of laws right away - and the question is who should research what.

Whoever does code of laws will likely be the one doing republic, as philosophy will be finished first, and whoever researched it will need to move onto something else or waste a lot of research time while code of laws is being completed. The faster research civ should take code of laws and republic. I suspect that is you, but I will give you an idea of our gold production, and how much we can pour into research. And then we can compare. Sound good?

Will keep you posted on the GoW trade and dealings with Lux. Also - sorry again about WC and Myst - they will be there next turn.

And last but not least, we should consider how we communicate with each other on proposed deals with the civs on the continent. We do not want to end up inadvertantly bidding against each other in a three way deal, or something like that. This may not be much of an issue, and may simply be a case of staying in touch.

Take care .... Beta.

[nbarclay]

My response:

Based on your estimate in an earlier message of 20 turns for Mathematics, Gathering Storm is clearly the nation with faster research. Indeed, my bet is that we can have Code of Laws ready by the time you finish Philosophy.

Nathan

Nathan

[nbarclay]

From BetaHound (actually arrived shortly after my message above but I didn't think to post it right away):

Race ya! (OK - sounds good.)

[nbarclay]

Message from Beta:

Hi nathan. The two techs should be there now. We even had a separate thread reminding Dissident and myself. We bumped it to keep it near the top.

I see that you have finished writing. As you had not accepted the deal to send it to us on its own (didn't believe our fumbling was for real???) we could not start philosophy this turn. Will let you know the research time when we do next turn. Can you let us know the time for Code of Laws please.

Concluded the deal with GoW. Sort of. We now have contact with Neu D, and can pass this on - if you do not already have it courtesy of RP. We have passed mysticism to GoW. They will complete mathematics and will pass it to us in two turns time. As mentioned previously - this deal also cost us 15 gold. But split between us that is a dirt-cheap price for math.

Also as mentioned earlier, one warrior is heading back down the road as we are now sure we don't need him for population control duties up north. Our other warrior is moving back to his mountain look-out spot.

Looks like Lux has themselves in a pit of a pickle.

Anyways - trust all is well with the GS folks. Please keep us posted on events, and we will do likewise.

Cheers ... BetaHound.

[nbarclay]

Response to Beta:

Sir Ralph says he's sure he did hit Accept before sending Writing. Is it possible that whoever played the turn on your end might have disrupted the deal by trying to add the stuff you sent us before accepting our offer? In any case, you have Writing now.

Our current ETA on Code of Laws is about 10 turns, and we've agreed to split the cost of your deal with GoW with you as requested. It's a pleasure doing business, and all the more so after the earlier tensions.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

From BetaHound:

No worry. Deal is done. We still have horseback riding as well, which we can send. Let us know what GoW proposes and how you want to handle this. For now we have honoured our deal with them. We can sit tight for awhile.

Cheers!

[nbarclay]

Got another message from Beta confirming that it was he, not Sir Ralph, that mishandled our gift of Writing.

Hi nathan - I rechecked the save this morning - and Sir Ralph was right. He had accepted. I think what happened is that in my rush to make sure I did not forget to give the two techs to GS, that I put them on the table first, which of course creates a new deal which both have to accept again. And that was why I had assumed that Sir Ralph had not accepted. I should've accepted writing first then put the others on the table. Ah well - live and learn.

Have a good one. ... Beta.

[nbarclay]

Response to Beta:

Thanks for checking. No huge harm done. We'd appreciate it if you would send us a time estimate on Philosophy once you play your turn.

Nathan