Dimplomatic Scholia: Ambassador's Office - Vox Controli

[nbarclay]

Diplomatic Breakthrough!

BetaHound sent the following message (which I'm splitting into multiple parts just as he did).

ManicStarSeed and Nathan Barclay of Gathering Storm.

After much deliberation - some would say too much - the wise Controller of Vox Controli - has reached a decision on many of the issues before us. I appreciate the blanket of tension that our indecision has cast over Estonia. Believe me, it has not been pleasant on the home front either. I would say you could cut the tension with a knife, but that by itself sounds aggressive. Which brings me to the response I have been authorized to relay to you, and the leaders of Gathering Storm.

I am pleased, nay honoured, to say that the collective wisdom of Vox sees the benefits of peaceful co-existance. I will be honest with you - I was not unaware of the problems and threat being posed by our warriors southern trek. Particularly given our entrenched position on the isthmus.

Therefore, as per your earlier request, our two explorers in the south have been ordered to halt all southern movement, and to pull-back to the mountains to their north. We have called these mountains the Sierra Centralis.

We have no desire, nor as many at home have suggested, any right, to expand or explore into your territory. We fully acknowledge your present territorial rights, as well as the right to future expansion. It is understood that we will need to further discuss this matter, given that at some time in the future, the borders of our civilizations will be nearer than they are now.

We, however, claim territorial right to the isthmus. In a previous letter you essentially acknowledged the legitimacy of such a claim. Both you and we appreciate the significance of the isthmus. But more importantly to us, it is a planned city site. And in the near future. Therefore, we would not want your warrior to be trapped in North Estonia, with no way out. Nor do we want him to wander into our territory. We have stated that we will not explore or approach your lands, so with all due respect, we feel that this should apply to you as well. The problem is that as soon as he was through the isthmus, he would be in Vox territory.

So, we will try another alternative, and in good faith, provide the information in another way. In the absence of the ability to share detailed territory maps, I will describe North Estonia for you. I will use a measurement which you may be familiar with - if not we have attached detailed specifications to assist you.

North Estonia is not a big landmass. It is some six tiles north to south and four tiles from east to west. It is more than half covered by plains, with a small desert. There are numerous hills and mountains. Unfortunately there are no rivers. As previously discussed, there are luxury resources available to us. We have two cities in North Estonia - our capitol - The Voice, and a nearby and newer city called Miller town - named after the Head of the Senate, jon miller, who I mentioned in my last letter. And lastly, it connects to another landmass to the east.

end of part 1 - part 2 follows on a separate camel.

[nbarclay]

part 2 of message.

I trust this helps your cartographers, and we sincerely hope you understand our position regarding the isthmus. Given that we have 'gone out on a limb' so to speak, in providing this information, combined with the fact that we have stopped our southward exploration, it would be seen as a sign of good faith if you could provide a similar description of your end of the continent.

More importantly, given our commitment to stopping all southerly exploration, and pulling our explorers back, it would be greatly appreciated if Gathering Storm could do the same. The Sierra Centralis seems to be both a convenient and fair geographical divide. We are not saying that it has to be the final demarcation line between our civilizations, just the agreed-upon line to which we both withdraw our explorers at this time. As I acknowledge above, further discussion regarding a more permanent border is required.

And I will once more express Vox Controli's stance of non-aggression. It is clear from both our words and our actions of this day that we are committed to peaceful relations with Gathering Storm.

The other issue on the table before us is the issue of trade of technologies. Alas, we got through the one discussion, but not the other. As I write this, there is both serious debate, and serious polling taking place within Vox. We will not take much longer - I can ensure you. But I felt it best that we resolve these other matters of territory as soon as possible, and not wait for a decision on technology trading. I will get back to you shortly on your recent proposals. However, I can add one additional piece of information. We do expect to acquire the knowledge of pottery in th enear future. Perhaps this is something else we would like to consider in our trading proposals.

It has been an exhausting week of internal and external discussions, I must admit. I, BetaHound, could sleep like a dog, if indeed, I had the time. Alas my dear sirs, the debate at home, and other foreign affairs matters beckon me.

I believe we are laying down an historic foundation of friendship with these early discussions. It has had its tensions, but we are both youthful civilizations, and I guess that is to be expected. I am optimistic about our future and the potential of peaceful co-existance on Estonia.

I wish you well, dear sirs, and look forward to your response.

Sincerely yours,

BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli

[nbarclay]

A much shorter note from Dissident:

Just a quick note if our foreign minister hasn't already sent you formal diplomacy documents. I may have been hasty in declaring our lack of interest for round things (the wheel). Some of our scholars can see a benefit to such a crazy device. We are considering you generous proposal at this moment. We look forward to working with you shortly.

[nbarclay]

Message I sent back to them regarding the trade situation:

[Sent to BetaHound with copies to Dissident and Jon Miller]

Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,

I must emphasize that this message is from me personally as chief economist and sometimes de facto ambassador, not from all of Gathering Storm. Time is short, and I feel that I must act quickly (and somewhat independently) if I am to prevent an opportunity from slipping past. I can only hope that it is not already too late.

The thaw you have just brought in the tensions between our lands is very welcome indeed. But the tensions have already done significant damage to our trade proposal. When you seemingly rejected our trade proposal (even casting doubt on whether what we had to offer was possible), and also kept advancing Tim and Willy and brought in a worker to further block Grog's movement, that gave the militarists the upper hand in guiding our research. As a result, we started on Bronze Working instead of on Alphabet, which greatly complicates efforts to keep our trade proposal alive.

Nonetheless, I continue to regard it as foolish for us to duplicate research efforts when we have opportunities to follow separate paths and exchange our results. I am therefore requesting a brief halt in our research on Bronze Working (and I am not sure even a brief one will be acceptable to our other leaders; certainly anything more will not be) to provide a small amount of additional time to perhaps keep our offer alive. I can understand your need to discuss matters, but whatever window of opportunity might still be open will not remain open for long - at least not regarding this particular proposal.

In regard to your comments on pottery, our people are already making good use of such knowledge. I am having my messenger bring you a few small samples that may aid your research in some small way. We had thought that we might offer to trade you Pottery and The Wheel for Iron Working (if you have that knowledge) after we finished Bronze Working, but if you are very far along in your research, that too may be an opportunity lost due to tensions and poor communication.

In any case, I welcome this new era in our relationship and hope for a long and prosperous friendship between our peoples.

Sincerely,

Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist of Gathering Storm

[nbarclay]

Another message regarding the trade situation:

[Sent to BetaHound with copies to Dissident and Jon Miller.]

Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,

I have just barely managed to persuade Gathering Storm to delay our research for a single turn in order to keep our original trade proposal open. Note that for the deal to work, you must agree to both phases, The Wheel for Bronze Working and then Alphabet (once we get it) for Iron Working (and we need a message to that effect). Otherwise, the values of the research involved do not balance (if the Mystic Editor is to be believed). And even at equal values, we would be eating a loss of a turn's research into Bronze Working.

If you prefer some other arrangement, there are two other possibilities that occur to us. If your research on Pottery is only barely started, we could exchange Pottery and perhaps a small amount of gold for Bronze Working. Or we could continue our research into Bronze Working and then exchange Pottery and The Wheel for Iron Working (assuming you have that knowledge), allowing you to shift your efforts from Pottery to something else. Or if you have any other reasonable proposal, we would be interested to hear it.

Again, I must emphasize that any arrangement involving your trading Bronze Working to us must be finalized by the time we submit our next turn. Otherwise, we will have to resume our research and a trade will no longer seem worthwhile. I apologize for the pressure this places on your leaders, but you should feel the pressure I find myself facing just for requesting this delay!

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[nbarclay]

Preliminary response from BetaHound regarding the trade situation:

Greetings Nathan.

Received your latest note, and yes, I full appreciate the pressure you are under. I too face similar tensions from my side. The life of a diplomat is not easy. You must be looking forward to getting back to a life of medians and means and chi squared analyses and indifference curves.

We are very close to be able to respond, and my sense is that both your persuasiveness with your people as well as their patience, will not go unrewarded.

To be honest - the pottery deal does not interest us. Your original proposal does - and we see your logic in wanting the two parts of the deal. It has appeal for us as well, particularly since tensions over territorial issues have diminished significantly.

I will be back to you in short order. Regards,

BetaHound, FVA, Vox C.

[nbarclay]

Response from Vox on the trade deal - a "yes" with strings attached:

Nathan Barclay of Gathering Storm,

Greetings my dear sir. My humble apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I acknowledge the pressures that have been placed on you and your leaders by our extended deliberations.

After considerable discussion - and I think you fully understand and appreciate the magnitude of these early decisions - I am pleased to inform you that I have been directed by our Controller to advise you, Gathering Storm, that the two-tiered technology trade, as previously outlined, is acceptable to Vox Controli.

To this end, we would, at the earliest possible moment the game allows, trade bronze working for the wheel. At a prescribed future date, we will trade iron working for alphabet. We acknowldge the need for the two-tiered trade to create equity in the overall beeker costs of the trades involved.

We do have one concern. In the first instance, we are trading a 'military' technology for another military technology, which in our opinion, is of lesser significance, to us, Vox Controli, of Persian lineage. In the second instance we are trading an even more powerful military technology for a peaceful technology. This way of looking at the two-tiered trade was the major stumbling block to its early approval here at home. We, of Vox Controli, are all certain of our own peaceful intentions. However, some of our senators are not so sure of yours. And this trade was seen by some as a major concession in strengthening your military position.

We therefore ask that this deal be taken in conjunction with the earlier proposals on peaceful co-existance on the continent, and the pre-requisite territorial moves, as outlined in my previous letter. One is dependent on the other.

We would also appreciate a "statement of peaceful intent" from Gathering Storm, given that we have stated our such intent several times now.

We also see the need to get past this early stumbling block our relationship has encountered. If we can work towards mutual trust and co-dependence, I feel that together, we will be better prepared to face the rest of the world. Gathering Storm had raised this point in an earlier correspondence. The position has merits, and I can see us both working towards such a goal.

In conclusion, I trust that we can do business as described above. I look forward to hearing from you, not only in regards to the technology trade, but with respect to the territorial matters discussed earlier. I offer my sincerest regards to you and the leaders of Gathering Storm.

Yours truly,

BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli

[nbarclay]

Our response to Vox's strings:

[To BetaHound; copies to Dissident, Eli, and Jon Miller]

Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,

I regret to inform you that I have contracted a disease known as "real life," and that my physicians will not permit me to put the time into this message and its related issues that I would really like to. I hope you can understand my situation.

I fear that if you want us to reach a consensus to commit to a permanent peace within the time available for this trade deal, you want the impossible. Your earlier actions have stirred up more than a little mistrust, resentment, and even anger among some of our leaders (indeed, probably among all of us to varying degrees), and those wounds will require a combination of time and positive experiences between our peoples before they can fully heal.

That said, however, we of Gathering Storm can guarantee you of two things. First, it is our great hope to avoid even the hint of warfare for a long time to come. We have far too much to do settling cities and building infrastructure to want to waste our resources fighting.

And second, our interest in obtaining Iron Working so early is purely defensive in nature. Were it not for defensive concerns, especially concerns about the power of your immortals, our focus would be entirely on peaceful lines of research. But you do have immortals (or at least the basic technology needed to build them), and in light of the recent tensions, we regard the ability to build swordsmen as an important counterweight.

(If you would feel more comfortable with some specific duration attached to our promise of peace, that could be arranged as long as the duration is reasonable and there are reasonable protections for each side's legitimate interests. But durations imply endings, and I much prefer to view this as merely a beginning.)

We should also point out that contrary to what some among you seem to think, your rejection of our proposal would make little difference in when we learn how to work iron. It is ultimately the peaceful technology, not the military one, that you would cause a major delay to if you reject this proposal. And in the process, you would pass over both a valuable economic opportunity and an opportunity to replace the recent tensions with a clear positive element in our relationship.

In regard to your request that we withdraw our warriors, we would like to propose a different idea. We have long valued the assurances Grog can provide that no Vox Controli army (aside from your two scouts) is anywhere near our territory. If you have any similar concerns regarding us, I imagine you would appreciate similar assurances from the eyes of your own units. We therefore propose that Grog remain where he is for the time being, and that you move Willy "9" and Tim "6-3" (using the Language of the Keys) from their positions as of when we took our turn. Slash can fall back to a less potentially threatening position. That would give each of us early warning should the other attempt a betrayal. (In the words of certain wise men, "Trust, but verify.") We further assure you that this arrangement puts Tim at least as close to our capital as Grog will be to yours, so the warning times on each side will be comparable. The lookouts on both sides would, of course, fall back as the two nations expand.

I know that this does not give you all of the assurances that you might have wanted, but I hope you can recognize that the the tensions caused by your recent actions will require some time to heal. We honestly feel that this trade proposal is in the interest of both our nations, and we hope you can recognize that mutual interest also.

We need to know whether these assurances are sufficient for you to accept our proposal, and we need to know quickly. Otherwise, the opportunity will be lost. (Please send Sir Ralph a copy of your response as well.)

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[nbarclay]

I'd intended this to be a postscript, but PM length limits forced me to break it off into a separate message.

[To BetaHound; copies to Dissident, Eli, and Jon Miller.]

Greetings again, BetaHound and Vox Controli,

In regard to your requests concerning the geography of South Estonia and a few other issues, the trade situation, combined with my ongoing bout of "real life," has made it impossible for me to find the time to address them properly. I will do so as soon as I can, however, and I apologize for the delay.

Sincerely,

Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist of Gathering Storm

[nbarclay]

No reply yet from Vox as of this writing. I sent another message giving them the geographic info. I had to divide it in two parts due to the PM length limit, but I'm posting it here as one.

Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,

I did not think to say it in my earlier message, but thank you very much for the information you have provided us. As I watch events unfold in our councils, your new openness seems to be doing even more to undo the damage from our earlier tensions than I had hoped for. Indeed, Sir Ralph, our glorious leader, has gone from being one of our leading skeptics to being willing to trust that you will accept our trade proposal without waiting for an additional response from you. We can only hope that his faith will not be disappointed.

In regard to your interest in the geography of South Estonia, Tim is on the north end of what we call the Spinebreaker Mountains and Willy has entered what we call the Desert of Tears. Waters from the Spinebreaker Mountains come together to form a river we call the Flood of Tears, which borders the western edge of the desert. (By the way, we may someday be able to arrange an irrigation project to your lands if you are completely without fresh water for irrigation. Of course the scale of such a project is far beyond what would be practical until our nations are larger and more prosperous.)

South of the desert is a band of plains generally two tiles from north to south. Eye of the Storm is founded as the River of Tears enters this band, and has the mixed blessing of access to flood plains that may help it grow or die as the Generator of Fortune sees fit. Our second city, Hurricane, overlaps our capital next to where the river empties into the ocean. South of the plains, as the land narrows toward its southern tip, we have a region of grassland small enough that a single city could cover more than two thirds of it (although good use of coast can stretch its use farther).

On the western side of the continent, Tim has seen essentially all of the grasslands and forests that the area he is in has to offer. The rest is almost all hills, mountains, and a coastal desert, until a few tiles south of Willy’s latitude where the strip of plains reaches that coast. At its widest, the land stretches less than a tile west of what Tim has seen, and the land narrows to the south before reaching the band of plains.

We hope your cartographers can make good use of this description in developing at least a rough sketch of South Estonia. It is only too bad they do not yet have the skill to develop true maps.

Speaking of cartography, there is still an area of the continent that we have been left in the dark regarding. Just as North Estonia and South Estonia are separated by an isthmus and yet are, in a sense, part of the same continent, it would seem that so too is another land that you say is connected to North Estonia. We would greatly appreciate whatever information you can provide about that land, and would find it difficult to determine what should be regarded as fair borders without knowing more about that region.

There is one other matter that is puzzling our cartographers (and the rest of us too, for that matter). You referred in your message to the “Sierra Centralis.” Your only explanation of that term was as the mountains to your explorers’ north. Some think you may be referring to the northern end of what we call the Spinebreaker Mountains (of which even the northernmost ridge is closer to our capital than to yours), while others think you are referring to other mountains farther north. If you would clarify exactly which mountains you are referring to, it would be appreciated.

By the way, although the making of full maps is beyond us, our cartographers do have sufficient skill to make a more limited form of map that for some reason they call a “minimap.” (Perhaps they do so because it offers only minimal information compared with the kinds of maps they would truly like to be able to make.) If your cartographers have a similar ability, we might be able to arrange an exchange of such minimaps to gain a more complete picture of the continent than words alone can provide.

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[nbarclay]

Message sent to make sure we have an explicit agreement with Vox regarding confidentiality:

Greetings yet again, BetaHound and Vox Controli,

It occurs to me that in our haste to address important issues, we may not have thought to explicitly request that our discussions with you and the information we disclose be kept in the strictest confidence. We would hope that the need for such discretion goes without saying, but we say it anyhow just to make sure there are no misunderstandings. We will, of course, treat information we receive from you as equally confidential.

We hope that our not having heard from you recently is merely a sign that you are busy and not a sign of accident or ill health, and look forward to hearing from you again.

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[nbarclay]

Here's the latest form Vox.

Dear Nathan Barclay of Gathering Storm - my reasons for not replying quickly are several - first - you take several letters to say what you should in one (Beta is smiling here), second - there is this thing called football, which interests me, third, there has been much debate at home as your letters have come in, and fourth and last but not certainly not least - my wife poured us a bath, and two glasses of wine. Priorities my dear sir. I'm sure you understand.

From what I can see - the deal is still on. The tensions still run high at home. Many do not trust you, as you say you do not trust us. But we are getting beyond that. I will respond in more detail shortly. After the bath and wine, and a lovely dinner, I am somewhat obligated to watch a show on the Home and Garden Television Channel - pray tell what can that be.

I will be in touch shortly. Yours truly, Beta.

[Harovan]

Dear Nathan - and Sir Ralph of GS.

Greetings dear sirs. Thank you for your plethora of recent correspondence. It is much appreciated, and has kept our translators and analysts, to say nothing of myself, quite busy.

But, to cut to the chase. We have agreed to the tech trade, and both phases of it. The first phase should be concluded shortly. We see this as a strong fundamental building block to peace, given that we are willing to relinquish our early military advantage - as discussed in my previous letter.

We are not overly happy about the warrior arrangement. Thud ends up being much closer to our core of civilization than our warriors are to yours. That being said, we are willing to go along with it in the short term, as a demonstration of our good will. If you leave Thud on the hill, he will be able to observe all comings and goings from North Estonia and should bring you the level of comfort about our peaceful intentions that you feel you need. We would have been happier with the Sierra Centralis - and to clarify that point - that is the range of mountains that Willy and Tim, our two most southern warriors, are presently in. As agreed, and as suggested by you, they will pull back to positions in this mountain range.

There were issues of geography that need to be addressed as well, and they will be. In that regards, we thank you for your recent description of your lands.

But, to be honest, it is late. I am tired - and my bed beckons. I hope you understand.

To our continued and constructive relations...

Yours truly,

BetaHound
VFA, Vox Controli

[Theseus]

So...

I am happily surprised that the diplomats have brought us to this point. Kudos, and well done!! A tense situation resolved...

But what have we learned? Vox is WEAK! What can we gain from them? Their current techs... and not much else, other than civ contacts.

I don't mean to be a total warmonger, but they don;t seem much like an effective research partner to me, and they stand in the way of contact (i.e., cheaper techs)...

AND, on top of their actions / attitude to date, remember that we face Immortals.

Trade of all sorts is fine, and I value the benefits... but warfare must come.

Edit by nbarclay:
A reminder: no replies in this thread, please.
There is a Vox Controli diplomacy comments thread for discussions. This thread is intended exclusively for a record of diplomatic correspondence.

[nbarclay]

Response on the confidentiality issue:

Dear Sir - I am trying to catch up on my correspondence. I seem to have overlooked this letter - and, well, hmm, some others. You see, we of Vox Controli like the number one. Why write several letters, when One will suffice? And you believe that from a diplomat - sorry, Foreign Affairs humor - and poor humor at that - here let's uncork a bottle from the cellar and have a drink.

Which brings us to business. Yes. As you have asked, we will keep the discussions and the business between us confidential, until such time as you tell us it is acceptable to share such information. I think you are getting to know us better. You see that we are trustworthy - even if we were a bit rambunctious there for a few turns. Get's the blood racing though doesn't it? Which is more than I can say for this poor excuse of a wine I have dredged up. Just a minute. My good friend from Gathering Storm, even if you are an economist, deserves better than this.

Here - try this. 2670. Awesome year. Much better. Fairly expensive though. You see, demand is up with population growth. And grapes just aren't what they use to be. So, if I draw a demand curve like this, and a supply curve like this, then the price ... wait, this is like trying to sell a thunderstorm to Gathering Storm. oh - sorry - little saying which has taken hold back home.

Anyways my friend - once again - my assurances as to confidentiality. And of course, er 'burp', excuse me, we expect the same in return. Nice wine, isn't it. If you would confirm that in writing - well, it would be appreciated.

Now - I must get back to that my in-basket of mine. I think I have a couple more letters from you here that need my attention.

Once again, Nathan. Cheers, good health, and a safe journey home.

BetaHound
Voice of Foreign Affairs
Vox Controli