Current Information

[alexman]

Are you sure it's too late? Aren't we only at turn 11?
I thought the chop would be done after the next Warrior, to make the 5th.

[Arrian]

Ok, this should work:

T22: 18f, 29s. Road done. Move to 2nd floodplain (stay on western shore).
T23: Settler done. Size 1. Begin another, use fp. Begin road.
T24: 3f, 1s.
T25: 6f, 2s. Road done, irrigate.
T26: 9f, 3s.
T27: 12f, 4s. Irrigation done, move across river to fp
T28: 15f, 5s. Road
T29: 18f, 6s. Switch citizen to irr fur.
T30: Size 2, 11s. Switch both to fp. Road done, move to forested fur
T31: 4f, 12s. Begin chop
T32: 8f, 13s.
T33: 12f, 14s,
T34: 16f, 15s.
T35: Size 3, 18s.
T36: 4f, settler done (chop done), size 1. Begin road. Order barracks?

This provides two tiles of road leading NW out of EotS along the western bank of the river, while wasting no time.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Doh, you're right. My bad. Not too late. But I still like the 5 warriors/2 settlers better.

The question I have for your plan is this: doesn't it slow down settler #2 due to not having the floodplains for bouncing the population back up? Granted, the removal of disease risk is something to consider, but on Regent it is low.

-Arrian

[alexman]

The question I have for your plan is this: doesn't it slow down settler #2 due to not having the floodplains for bouncing the population back up?

Definitely. I estimate the second settler to be delayed three turns. Three turn delay to get a 40-shield barracks complete is the tradeoff.

It was just an idea. Moving on...

[Arrian]

It's not necessarily a bad idea. Nathan is going to test my 5 warriors/2 settler plan, perhaps you should test your 4 warriors/settler/barracks/settler plan and get back to us.

I could probably accept a 3 turn delay for settler #2 in exchange for a barracks. Basically, show me, and since I think you're actually better than I am at this stuff, I suspect you CAN convince me.

-Arrian

[alexman]

Actually, what I proposed was 3 warriors/barracks/settler/settler. Not too different from your original barracks plan, but roading to the next city before irrigating the floodplains. It makes sense only if we want our second city to the South/East. Details coming up!

[alexman]

Delayed floodplains barracks variant

Second settler done 1 turn after the 5 warrior plan:

T11: 15f, warrior complete. Order barracks.
T12: 17f, 3s.
T13: 19f, 6s. Move citizen to unchopped fur, auto-allocation sets new citizen to irrigated fur.
T14: Size 2. 0f, 11s. Citizen to grassland
T15: 2f, 24s (chop done), begin irrigation
T16: 4f, 27s citizen to chopped furs
T17: 6f, 32s irrigation done, move worker to grassland
T18: 8f, 37s begin road
T19: 10f, 0s barracks done, choose settler
T20: 12f, 5s, road done, move worker to next grassland
T21: 14f, 10s begin road
T22: 16f, 15s
T23: 18f, 20s road done, move to floodplains N of city
T24: Size 3. 0f, 25s irrigate, citizens on furs and roaded grassland
T25: 2f, 0s settler done, citizen to fp, move settler along road
T26: 5f, 1s irrigation done, road, build 2nd city
T27: 8f, 2s
T28: 11f, 3s. road done, move 2nd fp
T29: 14f, 4s. irrigate
T30: 17f, 5s
T31: Size 2, 8s irrigation done, move to furs, both citizens on fp
T32: 4f, 9s. chop
T33: 8f, 10s
T34: 12f, 11s
T35: 16f, 12s
T36: Size 3, 0f, 15s move 2 citizens on furs, 1 on fp
T37: 3f, 0s chop done, irrigate, Settler done

[nbarclay]

I tried Arrian's latest variant, and while I wasn't keeping careful count of turn numbers, it seemed to work perfectly.

Alex, with how long it would be between the time we build a barracks and the time we build our first unit that takes advantage of it, I think the two extra warriors would serve us better. The extra warriors will let us scout north and northeast in addition to Grog's northwest-oriented scouting, and that might find us some terrain that merits changing our plans for our settlers.

Nathan

[Arrian]

I too like the 5 warriors, but I see merit in both. I'd like to hear some other's opinions.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Well, I stated before that I don't value the barracks before we meet someone, or expect to meet someone. IMHO a temple would be way more effecient in the long term.

DeepO

[edit:] I forgot... the 5 warriors looks to me like the best solution, even if we are going to lose money for a few turns to upkeep

[alexman]

How about a Temple and a Warrior instead of a Barracks? They cost the same.

So the tradeoff would be an early Temple versus a 5th Warrior and the third city one turn earlier (but the second one the same)

T11: 15f, warrior complete. Order Temple.
T12: 17f, 3s.
T13: 19f, 6s. Move citizen to unchopped fur, auto-allocation sets new citizen to irrigated fur.
T14: Size 2. 0f, 11s. Citizen to grassland
T15: 2f, 24s (chop done), begin irrigation
T16: 4f, 27s citizen to chopped furs
T17: 6f, 0s Temple done, choose Warrior, irrigation done, move worker to grassland
T18: 8f, 5s begin road
T19: 10f, 0s Warrior done, choose settler
T20: 12f, 5s, road done, move worker to next grassland
T21: 14f, 10s begin road
T22: 16f, 15s
T23: 18f, 20s road done, move to floodplains N of city
T24: Size 3. 0f, 25s irrigate, citizens on furs and roaded grassland
T25: 2f, 0s settler done, citizen to fp, move settler along road
T26: 5f, 1s irrigation done, road, build 2nd city
T27: 8f, 2s
T28: 11f, 3s. road done, move 2nd fp
T29: 14f, 4s. irrigate
T30: 17f, 5s
T31: Size 2, 8s irrigation done, move to furs, both citizens on fp
T32: 4f, 9s. chop
T33: 8f, 10s
T34: 12f, 11s
T35: 16f, 12s
T36: Size 3, 0f, 15s move 2 citizens on furs, 1 on fp
T37: 3f, 0s chop done, irrigate, Settler done

[notyoueither]

We don't have long to decide. A couple of days maybe.

To be honest, I have a hard time choosing between the 3rd Northern explorer (the 5th warrior) and a temple.

Nathan, this is ultimately your domain. We need you to make a decision (aided by the others, of course).

[nbarclay]

Until further notice, I still think the five warrior plan is the way to go, not that I've stopped listening.

I like the idea of the extra culture an early temple would bring, but there are two down sides. (1) With a temple replacing two warriors, we would only have two explorers instead of four unless we want to leave our capital undefended. And keep in mind the possibility, however small, that someone else might be heading south a bit to the right of where Grog's heading north. (2) A temple would be a permanent 1gpt drain on our economy, and it's going to be a long time before we grow EotS large enough for the temple to provide a meaningful happiness benefit to offset that on any kind of ongoing basis. In contrast, the financial drain of the extra warriors, although larger initially, will disappear when our second city is founded.

Nathan

[Harovan]

Is it just me, or does anyone else suspect, that we're on an island. And if so, for what do we need lots of explorers?

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Is it just me, or does anyone else suspect, that we're on an island. And if so, for what do we need lots of explorers?

It's possible that we're on an island, but a civ on an island by itself with two luxuries, while possible, is extremely rare. So there's a pretty good chance of having a land bridge connecting us to something else.

On the other hand, the lay of the land is not looking like it favors someone's being able to sneak up on us. I'm tempted to go for a temple-based plan after all, with Grog moving 6-6 to look at the land north of what our expansion uncovered and Hack going 8-8 to look out from the top of the mountain directly to his north.
If they don't spot any incoming foreigners, we could switch to a temple and plan on having Gronk come back to guard the capital as soon as he finishes his exploration while Grog and Hack continue to map out the northern reaches.

I'm not sure whether I like this idea or not. Opinions?