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  • #61
    Well... like I said, it is not as useless as in SP, and I agree the exp / MW combo is a decent one, but still... if we're going to be on Monarch, half of the huts are in our advantage anyway. And you only have one scout... a couple of warriors can be just as good, and can be useful later as well. Sure, we know where they are first, but unless they are really close and you can archer rush them, it doesn't matter: by the time you can have horsies on their borders, you still know the first few cities (which, together with the number of cities the enemy has as viewed in the diplo screen, is all you need or a rush)

    Compare these advantages to ind, mil, or rel/sci, and I don't see why everyone is so focused on it. But again, I don't own PTW yet, this is just some theoretical observation, not something that comes from using...

    DeepO

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    • #62
      Originally posted by asleepathewheel

      Think of the power ofattacking a civ when he hasn't even found our cities?
      We would of course have to be sneaky and attack from a different angle, so they think our cities are in some other direction.
      Former Supreme Military Commander of the Democratic Apolyton States, Term 8
      Former Chairman of Apolyton Labor Party

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      • #63
        BTW, what about nbarclay?
        The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

        Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

        Comment

        • #64
          Originally posted by DeepO
          Well... like I said, it is not as useless as in SP, and I agree the exp / MW combo is a decent one, but still... if we're going to be on Monarch, half of the huts are in our advantage anyway. And you only have one scout... a couple of warriors can be just as good, and can be useful later as well. Sure, we know where they are first, but unless they are really close and you can archer rush them, it doesn't matter: by the time you can have horsies on their borders, you still know the first few cities (which, together with the number of cities the enemy has as viewed in the diplo screen, is all you need or a rush)

          Compare these advantages to ind, mil, or rel/sci, and I don't see why everyone is so focused on it. But again, I don't own PTW yet, this is just some theoretical observation, not something that comes from using...

          DeepO
          But you can always build more scouts. And they are as cheap as warriors. And there are never bad results

          All of the firaxis guys who tested the game (insert joke here) loved expansionist in MP. Granted, they weren't they players that we have on our team. Draw your own conclusions from that.

          I like expansionist, but I am not adverse to industrial

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          • #65
            You can build more scouts... which so far I refuse to do in SP as you have a large possibility of running into barbs. warriors have a decent shot at surviving, scouts... well...

            As the Firaxis testers go: I can imagine they liked it (and prolly they were rather good at the game), but on what level were they playing? If this was Emperor, I would agree, but Monarch... that's like having expansionist huts without losing another trait (a bit like the Jag warriors: get a scout, without having to miss another trait)

            DeepO

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            • #66
              Scouts can't nail Warrior / Settler pairs.
              The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

              Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

              Comment

              • #67
                Originally posted by DeepO
                You can build more scouts... which so far I refuse to do in SP as you have a large possibility of running into barbs. warriors have a decent shot at surviving, scouts... well...

                As the Firaxis testers go: I can imagine they liked it (and prolly they were rather good at the game), but on what level were they playing? If this was Emperor, I would agree, but Monarch... that's like having expansionist huts without losing another trait (a bit like the Jag warriors: get a scout, without having to miss another trait)

                DeepO
                I didn't realize that the huts changed contents based on the level

                If this is the case, then it weakens the expansionist trait considerably

                Barbs don't worry me. As long as you're careful, you will be ok with scouts, staying one step ahead of the barbs. And scouts are very cheap, so its not a big deal to lose a couple.

                Comment

                • #68
                  Originally posted by Theseus
                  BTW, what about nbarclay?
                  I PM'd him (and Dominae and jshelr) but I have not heard back. Maybe you can be more... convincing!

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                  • #69
                    Ah, it is... was it alexman who tested the exact numbers? If so I'm sure he can comment on this.

                    Further: the two moves of scouts is only good to avoid barbs if you are willing to only use the first of their moves to explore new terrain: if you use your second and end next to a barb, there is no way avoiding him anymore. I lost all my scouts I ever built / started with like this.... barbs are the biggest scout bashers there are.

                    And as Theseus said, scouts can't nail settler teams

                    DeepO

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Theseus
                      Scouts can't nail Warrior / Settler pairs.
                      good point

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        How do I address multiple recipients?
                        The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                        Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Originally posted by DeepO
                          Further: the two moves of scouts is only good to avoid barbs if you are willing to only use the first of their moves to explore new terrain: if you use your second and end next to a barb, there is no way avoiding him anymore. I lost all my scouts I ever built / started with like this.... barbs are the biggest scout bashers there are.

                          And as Theseus said, scouts can't nail settler teams

                          DeepO
                          It would appear that I am on a team with increadibly risk averse people! not that that's a bad thing

                          Sure you may end up next to a barb hut. Maybe, maybe not.
                          And that barb hut might not even have anybody home.
                          Scouts are cheap, they are easily replaced.

                          Whatever, it seems like whatever I say you will not be convinced (and likewise )

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by DeepO
                            Ah, it is... was it alexman who tested the exact numbers? If so I'm sure he can comment on this.
                            It was not me. It was someone from Firaxis (Mike B?) who gave the exact numbers. Catt made a summary somewhere (compiled comments from Firaxis on undocumented game features, or something) but I can't find it any more.

                            Even so, I remain a strong proponent of the Expansionist trait. It's one of my favorite traits in SP, and it can only get better in MP.

                            Having said that, the traits are so balanced that it doesn't really matter who we pick as long as we play according to the strengths of our traits.

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                            • #74
                              Gotta go to bed...

                              Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm pretty pumped; whatever civ we play... I wouldn't want to face us.
                              The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                              Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Theseus
                                Gotta go to bed...

                                Don't know about the rest of you, but I'm pretty pumped; whatever civ we play... I wouldn't want to face us.
                                agreed, we certainly have a lot of civ talent on our team. regardless of our civ, we will have a great shot


                                maybe we should choose koreans, just to handicap ourselves

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