Turn 259: 1340AD

[Aeson]

Added a Settler to Tempest.

[Aeson]

Closing the save.

[Krill]

just checked the techs and no one has Space flight, ecology, or Nuke power yet...

[DeepO]

Space flight:
We are not going to be first. Good, so be it. So let's start on it, and wait. The price is going to drop, we know by how much, so we can calculate how many beakers we need to invest. I guess it will be in 6 turns or so, so let's not invest any more beakers than necessary, and finish in the same turn as the first one, if possible.

Alternatively: how much does it cost to steal the tech?

We better start on prebuilds too, and have these ready. The moment we discover space flights, our first nukes should build as well. And we should have the means to transport and launch them at the correct spots as well: ND will be doing the same, and either we make it impossible for them to launch at us in one turn (by nuking their harbor cities in range), or they will return the favour.

Invasion:
Is there any possibility we wait, and stay ready? ND is going to invade, the only question is when. Now that they know we have nuclear capabilities, an invasion is much more difficult once we get space flight. It puts a big count down on their actions, once we got it we can destroy any of their SoDs instantly on our ground. They can imagine we can build nukes in 6-8 turns, and they need at least 3 turns for invasion... meaning they have to invade in the next 3 turns to be sure.

So, I ask four things:
- Can we safely leave our troops at sea, out of sight?
- Can these troops reach ND in 2 turns (so about the spot where they are now)
- If at all possible, can they be transported back to Stormia in 2 turns or less?
- Can we make sure ND is going to have to spend 1 turn at sea instead of landing immediately, and having a rolling invasion? Can we also make that clear to ND, so they have one less turn on the timer?

With these, I would ask to stay at sea for 2 more turns. As long as ND doesn't start their invasion, we have no shot at this. If they start invasion, we advance to the same post (or a similar one) where we were at the beginning of this turn. The moment they take our cities, we counter by taking theirs, and hope to take more of them. And a few turns later, we clean up with nukes (and probably get blasted to kingdom come as well)

The only alternative I see, is we focus on Lego, and take it. Or we sit and wait until the big wave hits us.


DeepO

[vmxa1]

I do not recall how nukes work in PTW, but in C3C you need 3 hits to kill all units in a city. If they do not know that and use only one, then most MI's and Tanks will survive.

If you disperse units, it will be hard to kill them all with nukes, even if you know enough to use 3 on all stacks.

The only part that is not clear to me is the effect on tacticals and ICBM's. In a game I finished for someone last week, nukes did not destroy either types, no matter how many hits I made.

I could have sworn I was able to destroy them in the past, but either I was dreaming or wrong.

You won't be able to destroy a city afaik. You drop the pop in half with each hit, until it gets to size 1. It cannot be reduce from there by nukes.

If you are able to have units on the ground, then 2 hits will kill most units and leave the rest at 1hp to be finished off. If they have a barracks, they will heal if not attacked that tun.

The biggest thing would be to have workers spread out to come in and put all roads back and repair the damage and to add back into cities so the can get going.

In the game I finished the AI was bigger and did not dspread out. So after a nuke exchange, it never got all its roads back, while I put all cities back in two turns.

I know everyone is an experienced player, but not everyone has use nukes and had them used on them. Most will have nuke a civ that was without the means to reciprocate.

[Aeson]

The main problem is now ND has quite a few Jet Fighters, and we can expect more quickly. Recon. We won't be able to suprise them so our Marines have no chance to break through even if ND sets sail.

We could hold where we are, and most of the units can be moved back into port any given turn, but then we lose the ability to use our Transports as spotting ships. Right now I think that is their best utility. If the war turns nuclear, there is going to be a 12 tile nuke zone at first (once ICBMs are around it becomes a complete crapshoot). 4 movement by a nuclear sub, 6 range, up to +2 range in tiles hit. We want that zone to start as far out from Stormia as we can push it, and in most cases that calls for more Navy. By using Transports to spot surface ships we don't have to risk as many Destroyers or task as many Jet Fighters to Recon, so they can play other useful roles.

[DeepO]

vmxa, you're abosultely right with your comments on nukes. I've very rarely used them myself...

Aeson, I understand your fears on jets. However, we simply got to do something, we are dead already, anything we try might get us some leverage. If you got any ideas, I'm more than open to hear them!

Jets are a problem, but these will be primarily set on air superiority, especially if we use bombers. For the next 2 or 3 turns, we might remain undetected. Again, it's a long shot, but about the only one we've got left. A nuclear war we will always lose, without any doubt. And waiting simply is no option. We need some kind of plan, as only reacting is not good.

I know it's not the best idea, but all I'm doing is trying to suggest things which might help us. I agree on building our navy, I agree on extra jets, but without some kind of offensive threat we are going to lose any invasion ND tries. Compared to Lego, their biggest mistake was that they focused on their own land, instead of trying to harm us (as we were wide open). But, once we attacked, they had no chance of attacking us, as they were not ready. We need to be ready, somehow.

Is it an idea to move our ships even farther from Stormia, more to the South, or even West side of ND?

And transports being scouts... well, yes... but we currently got the ships to scout, and have the ability to build more. Transports would be good scouts, but it's not that we really need them because there aren't any other ships around.

DeepO

[Krill]

we are dead already

Yes, we are. We are no match for ND. Unless we can nuke their cities.

Who would complain if we tried to get GoW into another alliance? Our combined military could just about take down ND.

[DeepO]

You know something else that has been bothering me: ND is still running at the maximum of tax they can. So where are their nukes coming from? GoW? If so, we better strike a deal as well. Or at least ask what's up with them.

DeepO

[Aeson]

Well, in an all out nuclear war with ICBMs we are dead of course. ND might not lose everything, but they will lose to GoW afterwards if we are nuking them too. Nukes are nasty nasty things. I highly doubt ND wants to have this war go nuclear any more than we do. (probably less)

With Tacticals, we actually have about even oods if we get them the same time as ND. There would be a zone about 12 tiles wide between us where everythingn is dead, and nothing can get through.

We needed Uranium to stay relevent. We have that now (through no fault of our own, same as everyone else). We can compete for a Spaceship, we can defend ourselves in a nuclear war. So I don't think we have to hit ND to have a chance to win now. We have to keep out of a nuclear war, as does anyone who wants to still win, as all sides involved are about guaranteed to lose. Even Vox has a chance to win this thing if it goes nuclear.

[vmxa1]

The one thing that could make life tough for either of us, is if the only source of uranium is with in range of the tacticals.

Just the probability of nukes pushes the game into GoW's camp. This is because ND and us are at war now. This means we will have to spend making troops and nukes. GoW does not have that on their heads right now.

[Aeson]

Well, GoW has to be building Nukes too.

[vmxa1]

Yes they have to build some nukes, but they will not have to go into a full out arms race, as lon as they feel save about ND.

We do not have that luxury, we are already at war and ND does not either, but htey do have a larger empire.

[notyoueither]

So pick our enemy, and nuke them. Oh sorry, our enemy already picked us.

Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war!

[notyoueither]

Couldn't a tac nuke detonated at the right point get us into an ND city with rails intact?

Hit a little off shore, have marines swarm, and then tanks use the rails that were not touched by the blast.