What about tech then?

[DeepO]

Okay, once we discover computers, what are we going to do with tech spending?

I would welcome that, in case everything goes right, we go for the Internet and offshore platforms (forgot the name). It's a tech not en route to a SS victory, but usefull in itself. It would also be nice if we can build the Internet once we finish warring, so our research shoots up without too much cost (most of our Stormian cities have unis)

However, we don't have the cash to keep deficit spending on this, and we can use more cash for upgrades (especially our defenders) and spying. So, I would set us to the internet tech, but only at 0% or 10% the first few turns, unless we think we've got enough gold.

Also keep in mind that we might need to put the slider to happiness, even from the first turn of the war. I'll try to check next turn, but we will loose WLTKD in many cities, costing us efficiency on our tightly planned builds. Our main producers shouldn't be affected right away, but many of the smaller one might. In case it's interfering with our chainable troops, I propose to set the slider to 10% from next turn onwards.

DeepO

[Krill]

just a thourght, but in mob, can't you build wonders with the Mil attribute? The Internet sets off any civs GA if they have not already had one, and hence has the MIL attribute. So why not start it in mob? (We could also use SETI and the palace as prebuilds for SS. The only problem is that everyone will have 1 turns warning of us building the SS parts in F11)

Regarding the slider, I agree with the 10% idea: how much gold will we need to upgrade all of the rifles and inf? about 4000 gold? thats atleast 5 turns, more if we do the lux slider thing. WE might want to cut some oil if we need to build some (cheap) infs to upgrade to MI.

[DeepO]

erhm... cost prediction... 40 gold from inf to MI, 100 for rifle to MI, right? rifles are 60 shields, infs are 90, and MI are 110, right?

In that case, 20 rifles mean 2000 gold, 57 infs mean 2280 or a total of 4280 gold. That should be something near 6-7 turns on full tax, not 10, as we will be able to sell a tech to ND, gain money from RP, and currently have over 1000 gold in the kitty. Oh, something else... hopefully we can steal money out of Lego's treasury

Maybe best to have a 1 scientist approach to the tech... for the time being. It will mean another 80 gpt to use.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

I didn't think we had that many Uni's - I'll check.

[DeepO]

well, IIRC over half our cities have unis, which would receive instantly an extra 50% research. All others should probably build unis asap. At any rate, we've got some 15 cities we would like to build research labs(or how were these things called again?) in. Cost in shields... 200 or so? That's 3000 shields in total, in exchange for a 1000 shield wonder. I think it's worth it, not to mention we can choose where we want to build the wonder, so we can have a good production city, instead of having to build those labs in coastal cities where it would take a long time to complete.

DeepO

[vmxa1]

The internet is worth it and we do not want someone else to have it.

[Cort Haus]

Yes to the Internet then

[Aeson]

Rocketry and Fission might be the most important techs to get after Computers though. Seeing where Uranium and Aluminum are could change the whole game. If one of the civs lacks one or both of those, they need to grab it ASAP. Without both, that civ will lose. Can't launch the spaceship without both. Can't build nukes without Uranium. Can't build MA, RA, or Jets without Aluminum. We don't want to be that civ! The war on Lego will be the perfect time to scope out resources and claim them.

The Internet will help us research faster, but it won't help us at all if we start getting nuked due to a lack of ability to respond. If we have our own nuclear capability, it's much more dangerous for someone to attack us. Plus we probably won't have the shields to build the Internet available until at least 2-3 more techs have been researched. Now the shields need to be going towards homeland defense and the war.

We need to choose GoW or ND to "win" with I think. Form an exclusive tech agreement with them to distance ourselves from the odd man out. Otherwise we will be the odd man out. GoW would be the best choice probably, as we are at a point where we are allied closely with them and ND is not so close. Leverage the alliance in the war right now into a tech alliance. Use "we can finish off Lego quicker and expose ourselves less to ND if we have all these nice new units we can get to quickly between ourselves." We are also the tech leaders currently, so we can distance ourselves easier. Until Lego has been hurt (badly) we need to make sure ND doesn't get wind of such an agreement though.

[vmxa1]

amen

[alva]

Off topic:

What version of PTW are we using ? 1.21 right?

The save DeepO sent me crashes the game ( my own saves don't )

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
Rocketry and Fission might be the most important techs to get after Computers though. Seeing where Uranium and Aluminum are could change the whole game. If one of the civs lacks one or both of those, they need to grab it ASAP. Without both, that civ will lose. Can't launch the spaceship without both. Can't build nukes without Uranium. Can't build MA, RA, or Jets without Aluminum. We don't want to be that civ! The war on Lego will be the perfect time to scope out resources and claim them.

I'm not convinced... except for that last sentence, perhaps. The problem is timing: we will need 2 more turns to finish computers. 4-5 turns of pure cash to do all upgrades. And another 10 turns or so to get the next tech. Add in slider compensation to battle WW, and you get to ~20 turns before the next tech can be ours. That's too far in the future, by that time we probably have either won, or lost the war with Lego. It could be that by that time we're already in another war, and can claim resources somewhere else, but that reasoning can be used in any case...

The Internet will help us research faster, but it won't help us at all if we start getting nuked due to a lack of ability to respond. If we have our own nuclear capability, it's much more dangerous for someone to attack us. Plus we probably won't have the shields to build the Internet available until at least 2-3 more techs have been researched. Now the shields need to be going towards homeland defense and the war.

There is one problem here: neither us, nor GoW can start a prebuild as long as we're at war. Mobilization prohibits us building a palace. So we can start on the Internet either when the war is over, or once the tech is researched.

As to shield coast: true, it will cost us 1000 shields... but we'll eventually build over 5 research labs. The Internet will increase our beaker output with about 25%, or in other words decrease research times with 20%. We need to research 4 techs in order to break even, little less as techs keep on costing more beakers. The question is whether we will research 4 techs... I believe we will.

We need to choose GoW or ND to "win" with I think. Form an exclusive tech agreement with them to distance ourselves from the odd man out. Otherwise we will be the odd man out.

Nice idea... however I fear that in any tech agreement, we will be the odd man out. GoW is not going to favour us in any way, as they're afraid of us winning this game if we get too big. ND will prefer GoW over us, as they've been working together for over a year now.

GoW would be the best choice probably, as we are at a point where we are allied closely with them and ND is not so close. Leverage the alliance in the war right now into a tech alliance. Use "we can finish off Lego quicker and expose ourselves less to ND if we have all these nice new units we can get to quickly between ourselves." We are also the tech leaders currently, so we can distance ourselves easier. Until Lego has been hurt (badly) we need to make sure ND doesn't get wind of such an agreement though.

One major problem in all of this: GoW can't be trusted. I wouldn't be surprised if they currently are planning to invade us, either when the war ends, or before.

Also, we need to chat with them... the radio story is striking: We took long to decide to trade it to them, but in stead of asking us what was up, they simply started on it themselves. If that's not a sign that they're viewing us as the majro threat once Lego is dealt with, I don't know.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by alva
Off topic:

What version of PTW are we using ? 1.21 right?

The save DeepO sent me crashes the game ( my own saves don't )

yes, 1.21. I can send it again if you want, however I doubt that's going to help...

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, 1 thing I forgot to mention in the above post: That tech not only gives us the Internet, but also offshore platforms. For many cities, this means that we don't need to keep into WLTKD, as growing bigger will give us more shields, not less. Some cities can benefit immensely from this... e.g. WoC could use another 8 sea tiles, meaning an extra 24 spt (before corruption). 1 turn MAs as opposed to 2-turn MAs is a major improvement.
Similar things happen for other cities, like Typhoon and Tornado, Monsoon, Blizzard, Inchoff even. The investment of building an offshore platform will pay itself very fast in those cities.

That's the change I would like to see happening: instead of now maxing out in shields given our tech status (we needed this for the war), we can get more shields if we max out in population instead. It sounds weird, but we will gain more commerce and more bpt if we go for the Internet / offshore platform tech (can someone tell me its name, btw?) because of the production bonuses it can give us.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Miniaturisation.

(My first post from my new broadband connection via local router/network switch. Now to see if the other PCs in the network can access too)

[vmxa1]

DeepO, I agree that GoW is likely to be concerned about us after Lego and they have ties to ND.

Still, if you were them and Lego went down, do you want ND out or us? I would prefer to get some help to stop ND as they share my homeland. That makes them both more dangerous and their land more useful and easier to improve and hold.

Now I have no idea of the their perspective, but I would rather take my chances racing against us, than ND. We have less land and any we get from Lego with be less useful to us than ND land is to GoW (ignoring resources for now).

Couple that with ND being able to field MA's at some point after the Lego war, I would not not sleep well, if I were GoW.

Overseas invasions are harder to pull of and they have to be thinking that if they do not team up with us on ND, it may be ND teaming up with us on them.

They could team up to take all the Lego land from us, but unless one strikes at homeland, you will not do enough damage.