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**Cort Haus** · July 19, 2004, 06:12

I'm now hating this game.

Theseus, what are you doing to us?

**Cort Haus** · July 19, 2004, 06:42

What I mean is, Theseus, that if you say you'll do the detailed plan, but then don't do it, we're left with nothing.

I tried, and spent a long time getting virtually nowhere, but posted my non-results anyway. I then calculated that it would take me 1000 hours to come up with a full plan.

So the depressing conclusion is that GS is without the staff at the level it requires to complete the game. DeepO has done an absolutely mind-bogglingly brilliant job on the economics, but the team is missing an active general to translate his awesome accomplishments into a defensive plan worthy of his work.

This is tragic beyond words.

**vulture** · July 19, 2004, 08:24

I'm in no position to do anything for at least a week, as I've got a conference with meeting from 8 am to 7 pm every day for the rest of the week.

Sorry guys.

**asleepathewheel** · July 19, 2004, 08:26

I'm sorry for my lack of support. I've been away since friday and am starting a new job in about an hour.

no time for me right now. In a week, my wife will be away for a month, so maybe some more time then, but now....

**DeepO** · July 19, 2004, 12:29

Re: Turn 220: 1050 AD

Auto-quoting myself... there are a couple of questions that remain, which I would like to have solved before next turn. So let me start the discussion by giving my answers. Please comment when you can

Originally posted by DeepO

Urgent questions!
1. Defense plan. Guys, this is becoming a drag to have to ask it all the time. Could someone please organize this? There have been quite a few useful remarks, some maps with valuable analysis, and several of our members interested in it, but we really need to have it going! In turn 225, Lego will discover the marines, and we are vunerable again. In 5 turns, we can be attacked! Please, let us stop assuming we're safe, and prepare for an invasion of our coast!

okay, I'm not going to repeat it. Although I found CH's comments a bit harsh on T (we know he's having rl issues), they are correct though

As nobody seems to volunteer, and I do understand it's busy for more people, there is no time to wait anymore. I'm going to spend most of my evening on this, and hope that someone will continue. I'm not a general, so don't expect miracles from me, but we simply cannot wait anymore. I'll get a basic land defense plan up in the next few hours.

2. Our knights. Are we going to keep them and upgrade them to cavs (which is rather expensive for me, seeing that we can only use them for pillaging), or can I use them for rushes? WoC would be helped a lot by this: I can build 2-turn battleships and carriers there, or 1-turn subs, destroyers and transports. But only if I've got the knights to spend!

My preferred solution here is: use the knights for rushes, forget the pillaging option. We'll be able to create explorers in quite a few cities (both Elipolis and Inchon will be near 20 spt in mob), these should be enough. The knights are more useful to make our biggest producers more efficient, without spending too much gold (I'm especially looking to Hurricane and WoC, to get our navy up and running fast)

3. When do we want rubber from GoW? in 4 turns we've got tanks to build, and I'd like to mobilize then (if possible even before building units, by hacking into F1). Can we ask to get rubber on turn 224, so we can upgrade our units, and prepare for war?

I would prefer to have rubber send to us accepted on turn 224. And let them know it's critical that they accept their offer before sending it to us, so I can mobilize at the end of turn 223, and set all our cities to appropriate WF to maximize our spt efficiency.

The only reason not to do it like that, would be if all our cities are still building destroyers or rifles, and we need extra defenders. But right now, we're looking at 42 rifles, 8 spears and 27 pikes in turn 224, or 77 defenders not counting guerilla. 40 for our homeland, 35 for Lego... sounds enough to me.

4. When do we upgrade our obsolete units? We've got tons of pikes and spears, which could become rifles right now. They are our main defense!

I'm in favor of upgrading them right now, so that the moment we upgrade to infs, we can have rifles protecting the mountains. It does come at a price: we won't pass Lego in power instantanously

5. When do you want me to change from rifles to arts? I prefer as late as possible, as in mob these will also be advantaged. But in case we've got enough rifles already, I want to change right now!

As said, I prefer to wait with building arts. I would want to upgrade our 8 cats, so we've got some kind of defense going. Also, I'm thinking of asking our cats back from RP, or asking them to build more cats for us. We'll definately need more of them when invading.

6. I'm half considering to build a commercial dock in Hurricane. It will cost us 160 shields, or 1.5 destroyer. It would add 7 commerce, or 21 bpt. The problem is that once we've got flight, the Colossus will cease to work...

I'm still thinking of this. Also Bolderberg could use one (also using lots of coast). However, we don't really have time to loose on the unit building... Even if I don't like it, I think it will be better to make sure we get to Lego before they've got tanks, and any delay in building our forces is unacceptable.

DeepO

**Cort Haus** · July 19, 2004, 13:30

Sorry, I regret being harsh, but I think it's also harsh to withdraw an offer without saying so.

DeepO, how do you feel about continuing/concluding the game as a PBEM? Or even seeing if the other teams want to wind this thing up as a DG. It just ain't happening, and I expect other teams are in a similar position.

**vmxa1** · July 19, 2004, 14:46

CH I have no real position to toss in my two cents, but what the heck, as long as we can, I think we owe it to the other teams to forge on.

**vmxa1** · July 19, 2004, 15:00

Originally posted by DeepO

"As nobody seems to volunteer, and I do understand it's busy for more people, there is no time to wait anymore. I'm going to spend most of my evening on this, and hope that someone will continue. I'm not a general, so don't expect miracles from me, but we simply cannot wait anymore. I'll get a basic land defense plan up in the next few hours."

Great Deepo, I suspect you are at least a one star General. I have never played a PBEM or MP Civ game, so I have zero experience at the warfare.

"quote:
2. Our knights."

I agree with you, no need to spend money on them.

"quote:
3. When do we want rubber from GoW?"

Agree

"quote:
4. When do we upgrade our obsolete units? We've got tons of pikes and spears, which could become rifles right now. They are our main defense!"

I am inclined to do it now as well. I am thinking that the idea that we will show too much power and tip anything to Lego is not convinving. I think it is at least as telling, if we do not upgrade. If
I am Lego, I wonder why they are not upgrading spears and pikes. The only reasons are lack of cash or trying to hide strength.

"quote:
5. When do you want me to change from rifles to arts?"

This is the hardest question of all. I always tend to go with more defenders, than more arties. This is because attackers have to kill the defender first.

"As said, I prefer to wait with building arts. I would want to upgrade our 8 cats, so we've got some kind of defense going. Also, I'm thinking of asking our cats back from RP, or asking them to build more cats for us. We'll definately need more of them when invading."

I would agree get the cats back.

We start refering to you as Atlas, as you have the world on your back.

**DeepO** · July 19, 2004, 16:42

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Sorry, I regret being harsh, but I think it's also harsh to withdraw an offer without saying so.

DeepO, how do you feel about continuing/concluding the game as a PBEM? Or even seeing if the other teams want to wind this thing up as a DG. It just ain't happening, and I expect other teams are in a similar position.

You're absolutely right, CH. I don't like it at all that this from time to time feels like a PBEM. I do what I can to involve more people, but sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm the player, but that I'm a dictator of sorts, who makes most decisions as well.

I've tried to get things a bit organized by asking for someone who would take over diplomacy, and for a general to step up and organize warfare (as we're getting very close to being at war, both offensively and defensively). It's not that I don't like those tasks, it's just that I've got my hands full already... taking more responsibilities will lead to burn-out, which already is too close.

It's a shame that this game is ending like that. I can imagine that the past 40-odd turns there was not that much interest in this game, with the slow economical buildup. But I hoped that with the coming war, interest would pick up again. It doesn't look like that

DeepO

**DeepO** · July 19, 2004, 16:48

Originally posted by vmxa1
Great Deepo, I suspect you are at least a one star General. I have never played a PBEM or MP Civ game, so I have zero experience at the warfare.

That's the problem... I have one half finished PBEM experience, in which I lost the only war to Nathan... and that one was fought with spears and warrior chariots.

"quote:
4. When do we upgrade our obsolete units? We've got tons of pikes and spears, which could become rifles right now. They are our main defense!"

I am inclined to do it now as well. I am thinking that the idea that we will show too much power and tip anything to Lego is not convinving. I think it is at least as telling, if we do not upgrade. If
I am Lego, I wonder why they are not upgrading spears and pikes. The only reasons are lack of cash or trying to hide strength.

agree. If nobody objects, I'll start on it next turn

"quote:
5. When do you want me to change from rifles to arts?"

This is the hardest question of all. I always tend to go with more defenders, than more arties. This is because attackers have to kill the defender first.

The question then becomes how many defenders we need, and how much are we willing to risk while we're off fighting a war somewhere else. Can we leave Stormia with only 2-2.5 infs per city...

I would agree get the cats back.

Our original cats were captured by GoW, so these are lost. However, RP has build a couple extras... we could ask for them to give them to us. Diplomatically, it won't be the best solution, though, it attacks their sovereignity

DeepO

**DeepO** · July 19, 2004, 17:04

hum, when checking the save, I found the following (posting here to not forget it): Hurricane will finish its transport next turn. We don't have any forests anymore to hurry another one, but by mining two extra tiles next turn, and irrigating one of those on turn 222, we can build another 2-turn transport (which would give us more or less the transport capability we'd liked). it will cost us an extra 8 food, so it's only possible once... after that we'll need to irrigate everything again, and slowly fill our foodqueue

DeepO

**asleepathewheel** · July 19, 2004, 21:42

DeepO-

While i started a new job today (that runs ~50 hrs/week) my wife will be leaving me for a month on sunday (at a summer research thing) so I will have quite a bit more time on my hands to play with this stuff, especially on the weekends.

no guarantees, of course, but assuming I'm not too exhausted and nothing odd happens, I should be good to go for GS.

**DeepO** · July 20, 2004, 04:47

Thanks sleepy!

DeepO

**Harovan** · July 21, 2004, 08:17

Theseus has time issues and sometimes needs a reminder. He's pretty active in AU 601, though, so may be a PM or a mail would be in order.

I'm sorry that I'm of no help, but my interest in this game (not the PtWDG, but Civ3/XPs as a whole) has dropped dramatically. To be honest, to zero. I reluctantly play my remaining PBEMs, already regret to have started new ones recently (to which I will stick, though) and generally am happy when this daily work is done. This is the sad truth. Don't frown upon me, I sincerely tried to come back out of team spirit, but I simply can't manage it. So don't count on more from my side than a comment now and then.

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Turn 220: 1050 AD

Turn 220: 1050 AD

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