Turn 211: 960 AD

[DeepO]

CH, if I recall, Sufa doesn't need a hospital, as it already uses all its tiles if it doesn't use land. Typhoon could do it, but only for the commerce (granted, quite a bit of commerce)

We already have 3 hospitals (Hurricane, Bolderberg, Tempest), will get the fourth next turn (EotS), so only need 1 for BM... WoC probably.

Monsoon: I'm not sure anymore, but from memory, I thought it only would get 3 coastal tiles. We might need it once tanks are here, as Arashi will need a couple more shields (can also come from OG), but so far I didn't plan it. a hospital is worth 2 rifles, and it takes a while to earn that back in case it only gives the extra 2 spt from industrious.

GoW: tech situation, please. Ask them if they would be willing to disclose their max bpt. We can find it out for ourselves, if we want to... the reason to ask is that in case we would be faster on research, we should do it, instead of them. But we can't be giving the techs away for near free: we would need to split costs rather evenly for the two upcoming techs.

Normally, we would trade, but if we are faster (and I suspect we are), we would both gain from us doing all research, them spending gold.

your questions:
What would be the scope of such a treaty?
contract. We buy them to invade Lego on the same turn as us. (so not one turn sooner or later)

What would the war aims be?
Main goal is to disrupt Lego's supremacy. Secondary goal is to have a beach head on Legoland. Final goal (which we may never reach) is to destroy Lego and Vox

What would happen to Lego?
See above. Either they are hampered, or destroyed. preferably the latter, but it can't be a goal of the treaty

Would a GS-GoW NAP be included?
Could be, but only for the duration of the invasion. And i presonally prefer to simply don't mention this, as GoW is the main possible target for a doughnut once we get off Lego, and have MA ready. ND can't catch up in tech, GoW can.

What about afterwards?
Well, see above. If things go well, I would love to be able to take the fight to Bob.

What if we don't find any WMD etc?
We plant the evidence

Maybe best to create a separate thread out of this discussion, though. It's a major point that the whole team has to agree on

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by DeepO

GoW: tech situation, please. Ask them if they would be willing to disclose their max bpt. We can find it out for ourselves, if we want to... the reason to ask is that in case we would be faster on research, we should do it, instead of them. But we can't be giving the techs away for near free: we would need to split costs rather evenly for the two upcoming techs.

Normally, we would trade, but if we are faster (and I suspect we are), we would both gain from us doing all research, them spending gold.
DeepO

I'm not sure I understand. Surely we need both civs on the case to get them done in time - as in Steel and Refining, so with Mass Prod and Flight, and with Mot Trans and Amphip.

[DeepO]

Even if GoW goes for flight when we go for Mass Prod, we need a fair price for Combustion. So far, the efforts have been evenly split (with us taking a bit more on the beakers, as we're better in research then them), but we can't keep this up. We can't sell them combustion for 30% or something, we will need 50% or close.

the other techs (SM, Elec, AT) are different, as they can argue we got them for near free. We give them SM for their help, and sell the two others at let's say 30%, and we get a very good deal. But not so on combustion!

As to flight: I wouldn't mind if they research this after marines. But that might depend on our general(s), if it becomes a focus or not.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

They can't research Marines until we do Mass Prod, but could do Flight in the meantime. It seems to me that we should get every tech we can to keep up the distance between us and Lego.

[DeepO]

well... perhaps (BTW, we're discussing this in 2 threads it seems, I didn't spot your calculation before posting the previous answer here). My point is that we're going to have 15-20 turns between discovering Mass production, and invading. More then enough time to research flight and build all the bombers / fighters we need. it would be even better if this tech comes later, so Lego doesn't get a head start on it. GoW can do this, while we stealthly go for radio, and beyond (not planning to sell the tech to GoW)...

DeepO

[Theseus]

We are not there yet from a military planning perspective, but I suspect that we will need every hitpoint we can build, including air assets.... maybe I am missing something, but we need to collaborate to keep on the heat, in every perspective , as much as possible.

[DeepO]

Oh, I agree, Theseus. We of course need flight, but have time to discover it. But if GoW goes for flight right away, Lego will have an easier time researching it. It's a minor discussion though, as at most, it will cost Lego some 300 more beakers... nothing serious. It's just that every little bit might help

DeepO

[Theseus]

Hmmm.. so the balance is our timing in getting all of our builds done versus the lower cost of researching Flight for Lego?

A subtlety... needs more thought.

[DeepO]

We will get all our builds done in time, even if flight is researched after tanks and marines. That's the point I try to make: if Lego goes for flight before marines, we would get the devaluation bonus instead of them.

BTW I was not expecting airports everywhere. Perhaps one or two to build vet fighters, but that's it. Do you need them?

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Theseus
Hmmm.. so the balance is our timing in getting all of our builds done versus the lower cost of researching Flight for Lego?

Not only this, but our overall tech lead will be diminished if we tread water waiting for Lego to get Flight before us. Also, GoW might want Flight soon for their own reasons. They can pound Lego from their own cities with bombers, right? I think that benefit would outweigh a 10% discount on the cost of the tech.