vox thread number xx: communism

[asleepathewheel]

how do you trade a traded for lux?

[DeepO]

I'm not sure if it is possible in PBEM, but in SP, you can offer the lux you receive from civ A to civ B. You lose it yourself, of course, but AFAIK, nothing prevents you from asking for another lux from Civ A.

Vox can't trade our furs to Lego, of course...

DeepO

[DeepO]

Erhm... my calculations Re: WoC are totally off. It has 19 unwasted spt before the IW (7 waste). 38/14 after. 57/21 with factory built. Maximum, it can make 90 spt before waste(need hospital), meaning most likely 80 spt even without a PS (but in WLTKD). That's one rifle/turn, or 1 battleship every 3. It can't get to 90 spt with a PS, and 85 doesn't give anything else.

However, it's close: if e.g. it would make 79 spt after waste without a PS, a PS would be most helpfull. I don't know how to do the preciese calculations for corruption, though.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

alexman's answer on WoC PS here

[asleepathewheel]

so is it worth it? are other cities effected so drastically?

[Arrian]

The effect on WoC sounds nice.

Then again, will we really get WLT*D up there, even once we attack Lego? Are we still exchanging 1 luxury with them? If so, won't the loss of that trade drop the city back out of WLTKD. If not, WW would eventually do that, wouldn't it?

-Arrian

[DeepO]

right now, with the factory ready, WoC would make 99 shields uncorrupted. This should rise to 114 after hospital? Not sure, have to look at the save to see it.

Alex gives 24% as PS / WLTKD waste, meaning 86 spt. without PS, this is (31%) 78.66. with a PS, we can build 3-turn battleships, 1-turn arts, rifles, or fighters (I think, don't know the exact shieldcost of fighters). So if these numbers work out, it is worth a lot to us to build a PS there.

And yes, we can get to WLTKD at size 14. It would be a waste from one point of view to not use all the commerce in the coast tiles, though... without a PS, and without WLTKD, we get to 66 spt (2 turn destroyers, 4 turn battleships), but would make a lot more bpt or gpt.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, and WW would hit the city with unhappiness, but we have to keep in mind that we're going to need the happiness slider once we invade, no question about that.

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

so should I offer 2 luxes, furs and incense for communism? Can we do that, I don't have the latest save for some reason...

[DeepO]

we can offer 2 lux, and if they go with that, it's fine by me. much more is not really helpful for us...

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Is that an ok, then?

[DeepO]

For me it is. However, I doubt they'll go for it, but we can always try... personally, 2x2 lux (so 2 lux for 40 turns) would also be okay for me, but don't tell them that right away

DeepO

[Theseus]

I'm not so OK with a 40 turn offer, given our warplans... it seems a little false. But 2 lux for 20 turns is fine, if they go for it.

[DeepO]

Vos is asking for 20-turn lux deals, which can start whenever they ask for it. Of course this has to come with some sort of agreement that lux deals are not one sided NAPs, and the promise of future lux deals can't be interpreted as eternal NAPs if the lux is never asked for.

I'm not okay with giving them a 40 turn deal when we know that in less then 40 turns we're going to attack them (which we aren't, BTW. We're attacking Lego), but what they are asking more or less assumes we can break it for war.

BTW, one very specific thing to look out for (I mentioned this before, but just in case...): Lux we trade to them are not to be given to other parties, they can't be traded on! (i.e. can't go to Lego)

DeepO

[Theseus]

Yes, we will be attacking Lego, but the geo-politcal alignments indicate war with Vox as well. I know you are saying the same thing, DeepO.

Agreed with the further trading restriction... most don't know that is possible, and it is an important codicil. Although... ... is there some subtlety whereby we supply Lego with a lux once-removed, and going to war unexpectedly screws them up? (/end Department of Dirty Tricks)