Turn 184: the real 690 AD

[DeepO]

Okay, let's start this one early...

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

notes:

Nd has built an eastern port city at a silks deposit, se of pamplona
GoW has built one eastern coastal city and one eastern 1 tile inland city
also I'm not sure when it happened, if it did at all, but western city of Zayrut, was it ND before?

warmongers are now building sistine
(are they trying to beat us to ToE?)

military:

weak to nd
weak to GoW


Steam in 2 turns! Dropping the slider to 60%, we can run a positive 44g, but not sure if that is the plan.

[Dominae]

Where can I get the turn?!

[asleepathewheel]

you can pm vondrack to add you to the distribution list.

I can email it to you, if you want. What is your address?

[DeepO]

Just received a message from ND, please check the diplo thread.

Further, I will be playing this turn in app. 6 hours (sorry for the delay, but last night the only thing I could do was sleep).

Oh, and if we can lower our slider, we will... it might change though because of completion time of libs / markets.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

As Arrian said on another thread, with ND happy to continue trading with Lego, it really looks hard to see what can stop Lego now. I doubt GoW will be too impressed either.

[asleepathewheel]

what a bizarre turn.

I can only think that its setting up a lego/nd takedown of GoW.

what else makes sense?

Though they could come for us first, I suppose, then GoW.

I need to talk to MZ, or someone does, he's been away for a while, and I was quite busy last week.

we must tread carefully, its quite possible that GoW is in on this as well, can we trust them with our goals?


we're so alone in this game....

[vmxa1]

Well that explains their actions, very sad.

[vulture]

Do you not think we might have pushed them into this? After the chat to set up mutual research between us, ND and GoW, they wanted physics for 600 gold, and we asked for 800. It's not impossible that this annoyed them ("they want us not to trade with Lego, but want to price-gouge us for a tech we can't get from anyone else but Lego..."), such that they're willing to trade with Lego rather than put up with us trying to fleece them for every penny (as they'd see it).

If the situations had been reversed, I think we'd have been rather unhappy about it too, and bought from Lego.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I can email it to you, if you want. What is your address?

a blah petryk bleh hotmail bloh com

blah - underscore
bleh - @
bloh - .

Thanks!

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by vulture
Do you not think we might have pushed them into this? After the chat to set up mutual research between us, ND and GoW, they wanted physics for 600 gold, and we asked for 800. It's not impossible that this annoyed them ("they want us not to trade with Lego, but want to price-gouge us for a tech we can't get from anyone else but Lego..."), such that they're willing to trade with Lego rather than put up with us trying to fleece them for every penny (as they'd see it).

If the situations had been reversed, I think we'd have been rather unhappy about it too, and bought from Lego.

I agree it was not wise to get greedy on this, but you have to be childish to pout. IOW it was a dialog, a barter. They made an offer, we counter, they should counter back until we make a deal or not.

We over charge GoW as well, by asking for full value. These will upset people, no doubt.

The thing is grown up make a deal and go on. If you agree that we needed to band together to stop Lego, then you make the best deal you can and you do not cut off your nose to spite your face.

So if you do not agree that the teams needed to stop Lego, then that is another issue. Do not say you agree, if you are going to act counter to that position.

I see no reason to not take them at their word. IOW that they are not planning to attack. If you were, if would be smarter to just say you made a mistake in dealing with Lego and string us along. Here they are saying we don't care about you or the game.

I really do not like playing with people that will not try to win. I met a lot of card players in the Navy that played hearts like that.
They did not understand that they owed it to the other players to play hard to the end. It is great for the person (team) that is in first place to have others roll over.

[asleepathewheel]

I agree with dom in the other thread. it would seem that Gow and GS are in the same position-the two smaller powers. Perhaps we should form an "Unholy Alliance"

is there any other choice at this point?

shoot for ToE, all the while building whatever units we can.

[Tall Stranger]

Vulture, I am afraid I must disagree. They may very well have felt we were asking for too much gold. That's why we have negotiations. If they're even marginally intelligent people (and they are), they had to have expected us to ask for more. You work this out like adults, not children. If the situation had been reversed, I think we would have tried to negotiate a deal rather than further strengthen the team with the greatest chance of victory.

What bugs me is that they gave (IIRC) at least lip-service to the idea of a trade embargo with Lego. Now, only a couple turns later, they're essentially going back on their word.

I tend to agree with CH and Arrian: I don't see a path to victory with ND taking this stance. All Lego needs to do is maintain the status quo and they've won. They can side with ND in the unlikely event of a GoW invasion, and with GoW in the event of an ND invasion. GoW can't win without more land (obtained at ND's expense), and ND can't build up all that territory fast enough to compete with Lego. While our economy rocks now, in the longer-term we're simply not big enough to compete with a larger adversary.

Someone needs to explain to them that there's no silver medal here, and no glory in accepting second place when you have a legitimate chance at first. These guys are either idiots or they're trying to scam us (for some unknowable purpose).

[Dominae]

Thoughts on the turn:

1. Winds of Change: Harbor before Aqueduct?

2. Inchoff: one Laborer from Coast to Mountains.

3. Sufa: reduce to 5spt using Coast; build another Worker

4. Typhoon: already at 5spt; build Worker

5. Sandstorm: rearrange Laborers for 2-turn Worker-pump; 2 Flood Plains, 1 Desert, 1 Furs (from Hurricane), for 4spt +6spt upon growth to size 5.

6. Hurricane: rush Settler (4 Gold); rearrange Laborers for 10spt (Courthouse in 5 turns).

7. Use 2spt Grasslands from Sufa to speed up University.

8. Super-Micro: Hurricane 1 to 7, Eye of the Storm 23 to 69, Tornado 69 to 87. This gives Tornado at extra spt, at the loss of 1cpt in Hurricane.

9. Science to 60%.

10. Did we send word to RP to build more cities?

[Dominae]

Another point: we might to sell some of our Barracks. Many of them will only be sucking up gpt for quite a while.


Dominae