Turn 162 : 470 AD

[Arrian]

Excellent.

Ok, given RP's research situation, it makes sense for them to provide us with gpt while we do the actual researching. They need to build marketplaces (and some temples, just to get those borders expanded) ASAP, to further augment that. I assume we're giving them our luxuries to help with happiness?

It will be interesting to see what ND/GoW do here. We are not the only possible supplier of Astro (Lego, Vox) and it's also possible that one of them could be researching it. So I wouldn't could on a Chemistry deal. If we do not get firm answers by the time we need to play the turn, I'd say press forward with chemistry research.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Heh, crosspost! So you wanna do banking.

Well, I guess it's against my nature to research something we're gonna get for free...even if it will take 25 turns. But having banking in 5 turns would be nice, so if we do go that way it's not a bad thing.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

So much depends on at least the theoretical willingness of ND, or GoW, to trade tech with us. If they are, then we have a good chance of being able to trade for Chemistry - perhaps with Banking if Astro is devalued. If they don't want to trade with us, and we don't need Banks yet then we should go for Chemistry.

The attraction of Banking for free is a good point, but I think it depends on timing and the attitude of other civs. I think there are only 3 cities likely to be wanting to start on a bank soon, and old wonders and colosseums could serve as prebuilds - I'll check.

[DeepO]

maybe better to wait for more information on the trades before playing the turn...

I agree with Arrian: if we can get it for free, there is little gain. It would be something different if we would have a shot at smith's, in that case I would go right ahead and risk it. If Lego times its GA perfectly (they can always do it by attacking a Vox warrior, of course), they're going to be very hard to beat.

Are we ready to start building banks right away? That could be a major selling point. But, as we'll be doing the research, while RP helps the econ, we need unis more then banks...

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Oracle, Great Lib and Hanging Gardens are available for prebuilding.

EotS : 17 spt
Uni next turn, then 2 turns for a Temple and 5 for a Cathedral leaves it ready to start a Bank in 8 turns. 160 shields for a Bank = 10 turns,. Total = 18 turns, 7 short of Banking from RP.

Tempest: 22 spt
Temple in 1, Cathdral in 4, ready to start Bank in 5 turns. Time to build bank = 8 turns. Total = 13 turns

Arashi : 17 spt
Uni in 8 turns, Cathedral in 5, Bank in 10, total = 23 turns.

Hurricane's building 'Pernies with a palace box.

So unless we build units, and/or prebuild for Newton (though Hurricane would be best for that, after Copernicus), or heavily MM to slow down shield accumulation by giving the tiles to other cities - it looks like we'll have three cities wanting to build Banks in 8-13 turns.

[Cort Haus]

Those three above are the only cities as strong candidates for having nothing left to build but banks within 25 turns. The rest have loads to build - libs, mkts, unis.

[Cort Haus]

The three Banks in question would yield around 40gpt extra between them - enough for another notch on the science slider.

If we researched banking now we could skip the cathedrals, and get banks in first to start reaping the gold earlier.

[Cort Haus]

In fact - we could get Banking@4 turns with -16gpt and 66g in the kitty. edit : We'd need something from RP though - that figure is before entertainers / taxmen (though we only need them for one turn)

[Arrian]

Well, honestly those cities could build the banks BEFORE the cathedrals if we had banking in time.

But nevermind that for a second. Assume for now that we are going to wait 25 turns for banking. In that case, we build the cathedrals, yeah.

EotS would be done in 8 turns, at which point it builds what?

Tempest is done in 5, at which point it builds what?

Arashi is done in 13, at which point it could build something small (2-3 turns) and start on a bank prebuild.

EotS is the most problematic, IMO. 17spt isn't really that good for a wonder prebuild now. As you note, there is a 7 (or 8, since RP plays after us, right?) turn window between when it would finish a bank prebuild and when we will get banking. So, what could we do for 7 turns? Well, we could build 2 knights (shortrush a cat after 1 turn, bringing up to 20 shields, then 37/54/71 - knight complete in 4 turns. Repeat) and either replace WC's on coastguard duty and disband the WCs or disband the knights in perimeter cities. Then start on the bank prebuild.

Tempest is such solid shield producer I'd say stick it on a Wonder prebuild in 5 turns. Newton is 400 shields? That's 19 turns in Tempest. Smith's (unlikely as all hell, I know) is 600 shields, IIRC - 28 turns. Hmm, almost no chance of Smith's, but a decent shot at Newton. And as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather get Newton in Tempest (not as good a site as Hurricane) than not at all. Then we pound out a bank, and start the ToE (or factory) prebuild.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Huge crosspost, sorry, I was working on that for a while.

Banking in 4... tempting.

Here is the key, to me: do we need those cathedrals? Perhaps it's best to push for banking, build the banks ASAP, and then build cathedrals afterwards. Or perhaps it's best to wait for banking and press ahead with cathedrals and wonder prebuilds and whatnot.

-Arrian

p.s. Can we get Arashi's university done faster with some shortrushing? What's the exact shield count?

[DeepO]

Tempest is still okay for Newton, as it lays on a gold IIRC.

So... it looks like us going for banking first seems the best way. At least try to get us going for tech now faster, filling our treasury later on when we have banks in place.

But please try to get some tech trades first, even if we have little chance of actually securing them.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, and as what to build in EotS: that problem stays, of course... if we build banks first or last, at some moment it's going to run out of things to build. knights to disband in far-away cities or something to that extent can be done, although it is quite ineffective. Wealth isn't really worth a lot...

DeepO

[Arrian]

Building the units and disbanding them is more efficient than wealth, AFAIK. I'd rather be building a useful improvement or wonder, of course, but that's not always an option.

Let's see if we can get responses out of ND and/or GoW.

If we do press ahead with banking, be sure to tell RP. They can completely shut down their research. Hell, even if it's just 1 scientist, they can put him back to work. Every little bit helps. Also, we do need to ask them to provide what GPT they can.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Arashi has accumulated 64 shields, and can in fact get 18 shields per turn.

[Arrian]

Ok, so 64 out of 200?

8*17 = 136. 136+64 = 200. So, in other words, perfectly efficient. I assume getting 18spt requires some WF shuffling that may affect other cities and/or Arashi's food intake? Anyway, it doesn't seem like a candidate for short rushing.

-Arrian