Turn 162 : 470 AD

[vulture]

Why let GoW land at all. Get the contract, and RP can land one or two Conquistadors on Bob, kill a lone warrior, and then remove themselves. Not sure GoW would be amenable to the idea, but ND might to make friends, GoW might if they fear being swamped by ND to get friends, Lego (or Vox) might do it to help us remain a threat to ND / GoW to indirectly protect Lego from invasion.

Good thinking Sleepy. They research Nav while buildng infrastructure and funding our research, and then have enough output to get 2, maybe 3 techs from their golden age.

[Cort Haus]

I have grave doubts about this unless we had support from other civs, or we knew that Lego would do this anyway (they would if RP did).

If they did do it, we could supply the warrior ourselves.

[Tall Stranger]

Originally posted by vmxa1
It may be the lesser of all the evils for both of them. It will be so hard to invade and to get a real shot they will need their whole contient.

The difficulty of invading Lego will only get worse. All the more reason for them to work together now, when they can pool their resources, to take down what they must know to be the greatest threat.

Again, I'm not saying they WON'T go to war with one another. (In fact, I think we need to think through how we should react to another Bobian war.) I'm just saying that it would be a foolish decision on their part. Sadly, humans can often times make decisions one would normally only expect from an AI.

Originally posted by vmxa1

Originally posted by Tall Stranger
That part worries me the most, actually. If I'm GoW and planning to take down Lego, I'd be working pretty damn hard to get those Lego troops withdrawn.

Why is that? I could see letting them sit there until you are ready to strike. Why let them have 15 more knights on the home soil to deal with. They are easy to deal with by the reserves. You wait till RR are up and pop them with arties and take them down no fuss no muss. Plus if they were home, they would be calvs soon.

Good point. My thinking was that you wouldn't want those guys seeing you move troops around and (possibly) giving them advance warning that you're about to attack. I'm not sure where the Lego knights are now, though, so it could be that GoW is able to mask their preparations. But you're right that, if I'm GoW, I'd rather take them out the first day of the war on Bob than have them back in Lego, upgraded.

I still think, though, that ND and GoW waiting until RR would be another big mistake. If they have the forces to take down Lego, they need to do it before RR. (Big If, I know.)

[asleepathewheel]

we have an estimated 29 turns until the next era. We could see how much it would take for rp to get nav in 30 turns. I think if we slowed our research in this age by two turns, we might save 5 on the race for sci method.

[Cort Haus]

TS, right now Lego's 13 visible knights are in 2 stacks otside GoW's cultural borders.

As far as our responses go - if we commit to their Hoover Dam gambit that we're planning we won't be wanting war any time before that's due. Ironically, an opening could emerge, but with our sea-wall secure, we've decided to turn over much of our fleet into new shields for our economic ramp-up and save gold. We see the future military as Inf, Arty and a few 'old' Guerrillas, and without Saltpeter our current fast-movers are almost obsolete.

Just a thought. What if we opened the Save and had a new source of SP, and GoW had lost theirs.

[asleepathewheel]

along the nav lines, it would also net us magellan's as a prebuild possibility for a coastal city

[Cort Haus]

Navigation is cost 54, thats 1344 beakers. Divide by 30 is 45.

So, RP need 45 scpt to get Nav in 30 turns. I can't seeing them getting that and being able to pay us.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Navigation is cost 54, thats 1344 beakers. Divide by 30 is 45.

So, RP need 45 scpt to get Nav in 30 turns. I can't seeing them getting that and being able to pay us.

.

no, they certainly don't have the infra at this point to make that kind of run.



oh well. nonetheless, they could get nav in 40 turns and help us out on a couple industrial techs. we might need nationalism and some other optional techs...

[asleepathewheel]

CH

Maybe RP should go ahead and trade for PP from Vox. I would rather not see any hard feelings about this, we've been the recipient before and it wasn't pleasant. As long as what RP gives them isn't valuable-chivalry or even gunpowder, it won't be bad. Vox will eventually be given gunpowder by lego, anyway,if they want their free tech.

each of us trade with vox for the same thing, they make a nice tech profit, but nothing that will influence the outcome of the game at all, vox is happy, might come in handy some day.

[Arrian]

Regarding RP's GA:

I don't think I'd feel comfortable with triggering it via a sacrificial warrior, unless it was clear that other teams were ok with, and planning on using the same tactic. We've already engaged in tactics I'm uncomfortable with (unit teleportation - though I was all for it with the Voxodus when I thought of it as harmless). I'd rather not continue down that road unless I'm sure it won't result in cries of "GS and RP cheated!"

I think we might need Trip, the all-seeing EYE, to provide us with some perspective on this matter (as to whether or not other teams have discussed this tactic and if so, whether or not they have decided it's ok).

I suppose we could bring it up on the public forum, but frankly I'd prefer a quiet word from Trip first. It may well be that the other teams are vehemently opposed to this sort of thing, and so posting about it in the public forum would trigger all sorts of anti-GS posts, which I think we all want to avoid.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Re: Printing Press.

I'd say let's double-check for any mention of NDA. Let's take the extra step of contacting Vox about it. Something like this:

"We checked our diplo logs from our Invention - PP deal, and do not see any mention of a NDA. We wanted to clarify this issue with you, not only for this deal, but also deals in the future."

If we do something they see as screwing them, then we might find ourselves cut off in the future. Granted, we might find that anyway, if Lego orders them to stop trading with us (dunno if they would do that. More likely they would order Vox to take their time trading with us, ensuring that Lego stays ahead).

-Arrian

[DeepO]

Am I wrong in thinking that in the Voxodus contract Lego signed, it was explicitely asked that in case of emergency, Vox was to provide a warrior to Lego for their GA? I remember something like this, but am not sure...

And let's keep it from the public, yes. As trip is supposed to be an observer and no judge, getting word from him is also not really perfect. But in case we need it, we can let RP ask Vox...

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Arrian
Regarding RP's GA:

I don't think I'd feel comfortable with triggering it via a sacrificial warrior, unless it was clear that other teams were ok with, and planning on using the same tactic. We've already engaged in tactics I'm uncomfortable with (unit teleportation - though I was all for it with the Voxodus when I thought of it as harmless). I'd rather not continue down that road unless I'm sure it won't result in cries of "GS and RP cheated!"

I think we might need Trip, the all-seeing EYE, to provide us with some perspective on this matter (as to whether or not other teams have discussed this tactic and if so, whether or not they have decided it's ok).

I suppose we could bring it up on the public forum, but frankly I'd prefer a quiet word from Trip first. It may well be that the other teams are vehemently opposed to this sort of thing, and so posting about it in the public forum would trigger all sorts of anti-GS posts, which I think we all want to avoid.

-Arrian

Which is why it might be better to at least explore the sacrifice of a GoW warrior in exchange for peace with RP. Granted, that's a 40 year commitment, and lots can change, but it would be a lot cleaner. And, they are mercs.

[vmxa1]

As to RP getting a GA from a combat, are you saying that they have not used their UU in a winning combat to this point?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
As to RP getting a GA from a combat, are you saying that they have not used their UU in a winning combat to this point?

nope, they are spain and don't have navigation yet.