Possible Chat with Role Play Very Soon?

[OPD]

Actually there's another possibility aswell, we get RP to agree to us selling cities to ND for peace between GS and ND and further agreements, kinda like (4) but with RP approval. We could even get RP to gift us the other non-pamp city they have to trade to ND aswell.

These cities are likely to be razed anyway so we might aswell get some use out of them. Some members of RP should see it that way....
I don't think we should be too pushy with regard to these cities and RP they are afterall RP's cities to do with what they like.

[Cort Haus]

6) If we consider them RP cities regardless of whether BF is spitting in our face then perhaps we should just give them back this turn, request our own cities be returned to us and be done with it. If they wish to then renogotiate their survival in Stormia they may. If they died next turn then too bad. At the moment we just give them stuff and they do nothing for us except piss us off and waste our time.

If, however, we feel entitled to simply say to RP "you are a one-city civ and you owe that city and your very lives to us - obey or die" then Barc, NM & Sirocco are ours to trade as we see fit.

I quite like the idea of giving them back to RP and getting our own cities back- unless we get an offer we can't refuse from ND.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
6) If we consider them RP cities regardless of whether BF is spitting in our face then perhaps we should just give them back this turn, request our own cities be returned to us and be done with it. If they wish to then renogotiate their survival in Stormia they may. If they died next turn then too bad. At the moment we just give them stuff and they do nothing for us except piss us off and waste our time.

I like that.

puts the onus on them to make a decision for a change. make them actually communicate with us.

[Theseus]

As Amy would say (when parodying her Alabama origins):

I am so corn-fused.

[vulture]

I'm very much in favour of us getting N Stormia back from Roleplay, by whatever means necessary. offering a trade of our Spanish cities for RPs N Stormia cities, and seeing how they react might be the way to go. If they refuse, we can sell the Spanish cities and take back ours. It's pretty obvious they're breaking the terms of our treaty.

Re everyone else, I like the idea of sitting back and seeing what develops for now. We coul;d push things along by trading Spanish cities to ND - we seem to be viewing them as a more likely ally than GoW, and they're being very nice to us perhaos in fear of a backstab. Building up goodwill with them wouldn't hurt, and them getting GoW's intended cities might push an ND vs GoW/Lego war closer. Then we can sit back for a while, rebuild forces, grab a few wonders, until GoW and Lego are happy that we're not going to interfere, and then invade the crap out of GoW. And hope ND can hold their own for a while, which may be quite a problem for them if Lego can launch a signifcant naval invasion in the south.

[Cort Haus]

If we have to take our Stormian cities back by force - RP may remain at war with us until they die. I'd rather wash our hands of them and let them come back to us to renegotiate an alliance.
That's the test - if they can't come to us to negotiate a survival package , then we won't be wanting them on Stormia anyway.

This sounds good - we can offer an in-game swap of each 3 cities next turn. They either accept, or they betray us and die.

[Cort Haus]

We could even offer ND/GOW the prospect of our terminating the alliance with RP as a deal point for tech / lux to compensate ourselves for returning the asset to RP.

[OPD]

Hmmmmnm I don't like what is being suggested about RP at all. Don't kill the mocking bird...

What if I was to handle all the diplomacy with RP so no-one else would get pissed off with them?
Then what if I was to promise that I could get them to play along and do what we want when on northern stormia? A promise kinda like staking my reputation as a GSer on this.
If they don't agree to go to north stormia under certain conditions first then I haven't broken the promise though.

Would this stop or at least put off us terminating things with them?
I think I can get them to agree to give us gpt by the end of the day......

[Cort Haus]

OPD - you are doing a heroic one-man defence of RP at a time when it seems that the rest of us already feel betrayed. However, I haven't seen you yet post an argument that explains why we should trust them in the light of the current betrayal.

You obviously know something we don't, so get their serfdom and BigFree's head on a pole by our turn and the rest of us might move towards your pov. If you can control them like a vassal should be controlled then fine. I personally will need more than your word for it before I'd vote for trusting them, and I believe their fate should be put to a GS vote soon. A vote today would see them on the extinction list, and they should know that.

As Theseus said - they must obey or die. I'm fed up with being nice to RP. They've treated us like sh*t and don't deserve to live. We can't let them determine our fate. Their continued defence of Pamplona could cost us the game.

[Arrian]

Hang on a minute...

BF is an *******. That I already knew. Ignore him.

The question is this: how do we deal ourselves back into this game most effectively?

Do we try to help ND?
Do we try to help GoW?
Do we try to help Lego? (God, no!)
Do we stay out of it and hope they slaughter each other (which I'm pretty sure is what Lego's hoping)?

I say this: if ND wants our (and I mean "our" as in the GS-RP alliance) assistance vs. GoW/Lego, they must leave RP what they've got left, ally with the two of us in-game, and all of us fight GoW. In exchange, RP/GS gets to keep what we've got now and the cities south of Pamp (ND will have to gift 'em over later).

Anything less, **** 'em.

I say we communicate that as our desire to RP.

However, if we do end up with no deal with ND, then RP needs to decide who they will cut a deal with, because we ARE going to leave in that case, which means the only city they can defend is Pamp. If they choose to go down fighting without securing any sort of deal with somebody, I think they forfeit their refuge in N. Stormia. We should also communicate that.

Not harshly, not angrily. Just facts of the game, so to speak.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Lego would almost certainly enter the war if GS militarily supported ND against GoW. The alternative path is GoW + ND vs Lego to weaken Lego. ND using their leader to rush Sistine might be cool in this department.

GoW are stronger than ND now - after the battle of Pamp-1 - and if we want to join ND against GoW then we also want RP to hold Pamp and GoW to spend on taking it. This would be a reason to support RP in Pamp.

If ND & GoW are to go at Lego now, while we take a rest, we don't want Pamp getting in the way of that.

Also, I think we must pull our troops fully off Bob, even if a deal with ND is on the cards. The to-ing and fro-ing is making me dizzy. If we're back soon, we're back soon, but we should stick to what we said and get off. If we make peace we can negotiate the cities at leisure - assuming we can work with RP.

GS-ers who work with RP-ers in other games are perhaps better placed to deal with them, so hopefully you guys can get somewhere with them where I've been getting nowhere for weeks

[Arrian]

I'll try and talk to Arnelos.

Do we think there is any way to convince ND & GoW to go after Lego, with assistance from us (perhaps we agree to help kill off the Lego knights currently "protecting" GoW?). Because if ND & GoW fight each other rather than either a) settling down and building like maniacs; or b) taking on Lego, Lego wins. We know this. I assume ND & GoW must at least have considered it (IIRC, Aggie knows it).

Ack, so confusing.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Assuring GoW and ND that we won't intervene on Bob for xx turns while they damage Lego might be a start.

Resolving Pamplona would be another. ND & GoW will want both GS and RP off their backs if they are to hit Lego.

I'm sure ND see the logic in this, plus Aggie and some of his team mates. Other GoWers will probably back Lego.

So it's headbangers in GoW and RP that are more concerned with roleplaying feuds with each other and us than seeking a way for their team or alliance to win the game - who are the sticking point. Apart from that, I reckon it's feasible.

[Arrian]

I fired off a PM to Arnelos over at MZO asking to talk generally about this stuff. I hope to have some time tonight to get into chat and discuss things there if I haven't already heard back from him (I won't be able to chat for about 6 hrs).

I basically told him that GS is having a helluva time trying to work out "where we go from here" and that we were getting mixed signals from RP.

-Arrian

[OPD]

Togas is on IRC, from what I gather he remains king of Spain. See contact log.