Possible Chat with Role Play Very Soon?

[OPD]

As Arnelos says this is perfect, well kind of. It's very big anyway.

I was going to say this anyway, but I'm very much against peace with GoW without serious concesions.

My first reaction is get peace with ND and screw GoW.

But we need to analyse this fully and look at all the possiblities. The position is very critical now and what we do may very well affect the outcome of the game.

[Cort Haus]

Why is this perfect? If GoW have agreed to work for Lego to let them win it's disastrous. My reading of the game is that unless Lego are taken down a peg or two soon they could be too far ahead. I'd like someone to argue against that. The best argument I can come up with is that with only native one luxury, Lego face city size limits - but then they can just build more cities instead. I doubt GS will get many metros - we are already using most of our land. If GoW is working for them, they'll be OK for luxuries - so what's to stop them.

[asleepathewheel]

This is bad, very bad. Our forces have been decimated, our people are tired of war. We can't stand between GoW/Lego and ND.

This certainly makes the offers from GoW and lego make a lot more sense. They really have no reason to give us anything, unless they are trying to appease us.

Frankly I wouldn't be suprised if this was how it was supposed to go down 15 turns ago, had we not intervened. In fact, didn't our messages to ND warn them of this?

[asleepathewheel]

re: bigfree

what a jackass, I've thought that before. It would be nice for them to actually try to communicate their thoughts with us rather than sit back and criticize after the fact.

[Cort Haus]

We need to look at this rather unpleasant message from BigFree. It's on the log - but I'll quote it here too :

I'm sorry. First for not responding sooner, but I was fuming over GS'es decision not to go after GoW with Lego's threats notwithstanding. And for GS'es decison to withdraw those Knights that got masacared! Secondly because I think the idea stinks because it smells of shame and fear.

I do not like it. I want to do everything we can to make the war as costly for GoW and ND as possible. Here's why: GoW is out to help Lego win, period. GoW will try to win it themselves; they know that they can't and have resigned themselves to help Lego as much as RP did towards GS. The only real chance we have is to try and sway ND towards our side. Otherwise, I want to hole up in Pamplona and make them have to bleed for it. Either that or abandon it and take our units and head North with them to do as mush pillaging as we can against GoW.

So BigFree is saying that he refused to speak to us because :

1) We decined to go to war with Lego.
2) We 'withdrew those knights that got massacred'. What is he on about? I don't understand?

He also flames the idea I obviously rather foolishly floated (I'm fast coming to the conclusion that my ideas are not worth the wasted effort in floating). OK, he is entitled not to like an idea, but to rant and rave against us like this - what kind of an ally is this c***?

[asleepathewheel]

RP is fast becoming a liabilty to us

What do they want? Does Bigfree speak for his team?

He has been a loose canon jackass everywhere I've seen him at apolyton, ptwdg, isdg etc.


Where the **** does RP stand on things. Do they want to go out in a blaze on Spain? Well, then give us back our cities so you can go to it.

Is this why they're holding up the save?


Sigh.

[OPD]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Why is this perfect? If GoW have agreed to work for Lego to let them win it's disastrous.

Disastrous yes but the strong bonds between GoW and lego have been aparent for some time. This is good. ND spliting from the 3 way coalition is good. ND and GoW/lego fighting each other would be very good for us. I think we do have the capabilities to stand between GoW/lego running over ND, even if only by the threat of us mounting an invasion against GoW as soon as they move their troops against ND.

This also means that GoW and ND will be less willing to loose units taking the remaining cities on bob.

GoW need peace with us so they can continue other millitary endevours. As long as they have the threat from us they can do nothing.

[Harovan]

My opinion:

1) If BigFree speaks for RP, our reaction should be immediately to cancel the alliance, next turn declare war and take their cities in N Stormia. Screw them. They deserve to die.

2) ND fearing a GoW+Lego alliance? Excellent. Renew our proposal to side with them against GoW for a little or even no land on Bob, as I proposed earlier. This eliminates GoW, screws Lego () and forces them to forge an worldwide alliance against ND. Since Vox is weak and RP basically dead, this would bring us again in the game.

[Cort Haus]

With us gone, the 3-way coalition was always likely to split - and this was always a possibillity - particularly given vondracks ability to arrange things in his favour. With us gone, ND was his next problem, so he hires GoW.

If RP want to calmly say to us that in their reading of the situation we should be looking at a deal with ND, that's a fair position. What we can't accept is that attitude from BigFree.

BigFree's attitude contrasts completely with Aidun's and perhaps Arnelos. We don't really know what their team position is. Annoying as BF's rant was, there's no point in us over-reacting. If we decide we have to cast them off then it's best to do it with a cool head.

Once they've passed the turn we can move - perhaps express our concerns to the other RP'ers we've been talking to - and say we can't work with BF. Aidun says they didn't want to carry on if they were a millstone. Well, BF is acting far worse than a millstone. Could he have been drunk? I gather H_E has a few alcohol issues that might explain his posting. Does anybody know BF outside this game and get on with him?

On the other issue - without knowing how things will line up, we don't know what we want to do with those cities - raze, sell, return to RP - or even whether to accept peace from GoW if they offer it.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
My opinion:

1) If BigFree speaks for RP, our reaction should be immediately to cancel the alliance, next turn declare war and take their cities in N Stormia. Screw them. They deserve to die.

2) ND fearing a GoW+Lego alliance? Excellent. Renew our proposal to side with them against GoW for a little or even no land on Bob, as I proposed earlier. This eliminates GoW, screws Lego () and forces them to forge an worldwide alliance against ND. Since Vox is weak and RP basically dead, this would bring us again in the game.

This looks good, SR

[Cort Haus]

I thought it might be interesting to run the Spanish cities-for tech idea by Darekill.

Also, word from Aggie here

[asleepathewheel]

re: aggie

I would just tell him straight up that we have no idea what RP wants to do, we have no idea who is in charge over there. That we are trying to do right by them, but they aren't giving us much help about things.

[Cort Haus]

How about also telling Aggie that there's a feeling in a number of teams that GoW and Lego are going to ally against ND, and that GoW, knowing they have no chance themselves, are now trying to help Lego win the game.

There are debates raging within GoW, and within their alliance. Aggie says that he agrees with the analysis that all sides should now oppose Lego. His team do not think like him (if they did, we'd be allies now) and would possibly be happy to spend the rest of the game trying to eliminate GS, rather than opposing Lego.

[asleepathewheel]

good idea.

I'm glad this loser mentality hasn't invaded GS. I can't imagine wanting someone to lose more than I want to win,but I guess that's just how some people think. GoW is in position to win this game, but if they eliminate ND, then they are handing a cultural win over to Lego.

[Cort Haus]

So far, we only have RPs word about ND's concern for a GoW-Lego alliance.

I'd rather hear it from ND. Darekill is online, but hasn't read the mesage yet.