Turn 360 AD

[Cort Haus]

Draft to Aggie:

To help put the land debate into perspective, we've been comparing the size of the continents in the world in terms of tile count as a rough guide to productive power. Here are the results :

Stormia : ~ 200 tiles (including 40 on N. Stormia)

Bob : ~ approx 750 tiles

Lego : ~ 400 tiles (exluding approx 80 New Voxia)

At the moment, GoW had around 160-170 tiles in its homeland. GS has 160 tiles plus N. Stormia.

We propose that a 2/3 to 1/3 split between GoW in the North and GS / RP in the south would give GoW 500 tiles of contiguous land - compared to around 300 - 350 tiles for GS- split over two continents.


Quite clearly. a sliver of land on the south coast next to a 650-tile Civ is not an equitable-looking outcome from our perspective, and would mean ceding significant territory from that currently held.

We feel that the 2/3 to 1/3 split is a fair deal - if you agree then we can get into detail, but if you don't, then we would probably have to be looking at substantially different arrangements.

[Cort Haus]

To clarify : the area I'm talking about here runs from Mavdad-666 on the east coast to Bonigo-2222 on the west coast, plus some tiles in the region between the Alamo Mountains and the jungle.

[Theseus]

Good draft to Togas... I just PMed him about intel for this turn.

Give me a sec to look at the GoW draft.

[Theseus]

Re the GoW draft:

1) We need to be specific about what RP will end up with... you intimate 100 to 150 tiles, which sounds a bit much. I've been thinking 4 cities in the SW of Bob, so that'd be appr. 80 tiles. Call it 100.

2) Let's stay positive for the moment... unless something dreadful has happened, we still hold significant threats against GoW. No need to shove it in their faces, so perhaps delete the last two paragraphs? I'd rather point out, following up on the comments I made in the last chat, that this arrangement will provide for GoW to TRIPLE their territory!! What's not to like?

[Cort Haus]

Revised Draft to Aggie: I was originally thinking of around 80-100 tiles for RP in the southern corner - of which about 30 are hills - so it's not very balanced. This might be too much, as I admitted earlier - but you can find 40 tiles in that corner of which only 10 are foodworthy.

To help put the land debate into perspective, we've been comparing the size of the continents in the world in terms of tile count as a rough guide to productive power. Here are the results :

Stormia : ~ 200 tiles (including 40 on N. Stormia)

Bob : ~ approx 750 tiles

Lego : ~ 400 tiles (exluding approx 80 New Voxia)

At the moment, GoW had around 160-170 tiles in its homeland. GS has 160 tiles plus N. Stormia.

We propose that a 2/3 to 1/3 split between GoW in the North and GS / RP in the south would give GoW 500 tiles of contiguous land - compared to around 350 tiles for GS- split over two continents. RP would have maybe four or five cities in 80-100 tiles of unbalanced, mostly rough terrain in the far SW.

This deal would see GoW TRIPLE their territory - what is there not to like?

I thought of avoiding thorny issues like Pamp / Alamo or RP at first - just to see if they accept the 66/33 principle.

[Cort Haus]

PM'd Togas as per draft above - copy in log (edited to use 'aspire' rather than 'acceptable')

[Cort Haus]

If they accept the principle of 66-33, we can then argue against their proposed salient in Pamploma-Alamo. First, they'd want the cities behind them, making the divide 550-200. Second, the buffer would sqeeze RP to almost nothing. Third, it would cut into our mini-core with a destabilising salient (long borders) that could quickly cut us in half or strike any place at will.

Yes, an Alamo-Pamplona salient would be very nice for GoW, but would render our holdings weak and vunerable. A straight border offers relative stability.

What they might say though, is that resources need to be brought into the equation, complaining about being dependent on RP for Ivory and Spice.

If they accept the 2/3 principle, but Alamo-Pamp is their only likely independent source of SP after ND is gone, they may suggest we take more land to the east, and less from the (resource-rich) south.

[Theseus]

Ahhh, grasshopper... think!

Where do ND's Muskets come from?

[Cort Haus]

Draft of message to Nimitz:

Nimitz,

Theseus and I had a chat with Vondrack the other day. We were discussing GS's intended contract with GoW to hit ND, and recieved assurance that as long as we get GoW to agree to the deal, Lego will not intervene against GoW and/or GS in their war against ND.

As Lego FAM, we thought we'd like to check with you to confirm that this is Lego's official position, as you see it, and if so, to enquire whether we might be able to move to a formal agreement on this matter.

Regards,

CH

[Cort Haus]

The Lego chart was power, btw. They're building a lot of units.

[Theseus]

Good. I have to go to a party for a few hours... I assume you'll be going to be soon, so, g'night.

Next up on the hit parade: Trying to pin down GoW on a deal.

[Cort Haus]

Roleplay's Aspirations

Togas replied here .

By using the word 'aspirations' we now have roleplay's dream for Spain. Now we can test the other parameter - the minimum, or 'acceptable' level.

In the context of this, I can present the tile-count model, explaining the need for GS production on Bob, and ask them whether they believe that GoW could, at this stage, accept the notion of Spain fully restored as a Power on Bob, given the mutual feelings between the two nations.

My guess - only in a locked aliiance of GS-GoW-RP, could GoW ever contemplate the full return of Spain.

What if we said to RP :

... about 5 cities in 80-100 tiles in the South-West, post-ND is likely to be the very best we can offer you for the forseeable future, unless in a (very unlikely) locked GS-GoW-RP alliance, and we may not even be able to offer that. If all we can offer you is to keep you 'Voxishly' in the game, with no likelihood of a return to power - would you want that or not?

If they'd rather die than accept defeat of their dreams, how would we feel about that? From a long-term vassel perspective, they can offer us another core. From a short term perspective, they are a liability. How much easier would a deal with GoW be if RP were to exit the game?

[Cort Haus]

- the communiques to Aggie & Nimitz - are they ready to go?

[Cort Haus]

latest revision to GoW draft - a couple of tweaks:

To help put the land debate into perspective, we've been comparing the size of the continents in the world in terms of tile count as a rough guide to productive power. Here are the findings:

Stormia : ~ 200 tiles (including 40 on N. Stormia)

Bob : ~ approx 750 tiles

Lego : ~ 400 tiles (exluding approx 80 New Voxia)

At the moment, GoW had around 160-170 tiles in its homeland. GS has 160 tiles plus N. Stormia.

A 2/3 to 1/3 split between GoW in the North and GS / RP in the south would give GoW 500 tiles of contiguous land - compared to around 350 tiles for GS- split over two continents. RP would have maybe four or five cities in 80-100 tiles of unbalanced, mostly rough terrain in the far SW.

This deal would see GoW triple their existing territory, while enjoying a signifcant territorial advantage over GS - so as they say : "what is there not to like?".

[Cort Haus]

GoW payment from ND?

I've been wondering that apart from the possible SP and desirable geo-strategic location of Alamo-Pamplona. GoW have may another intended role for Pamplona - their FP.

We haven't recently stopped to discuss what GoW are expecting to get out of their contract with ND - and we are taking them at their word that such a contract exists.

Here's one guess : they were going to get Spain - or at least some/much of it, perhaps with some ND securing the northern spanish cities, and GoW planning to build an FP in a central and productive location - Pamplona.

If they are desiring this - it is fundamentally at odds with our aspirations there, but if their payment from ND cannot fully be delivered because we hold eastern Spain, and are claimimg all of it in the long-term, then our 'offer' of delivering their contract is devalued, as it denies them the payment they'd been expecting from ND. All pure speculation, but not too wild, I feel.

If they did have such 2nd core plans for Spain (maybe they even have a GL waiting), it might be hard for them to dump those expectations, even if we are offering them an attractive alternative (2nd core in ND).