Announcement

**Harovan** · November 8, 2003, 19:14

Lego will most likely not join the gangbang. They rather will help ND, to maintain balance. And they will do all they can, that we get not a single tile at Bob.

**Cort Haus** · November 9, 2003, 09:14

I think SR's comments there are probably right. I don't see us getting any joy out of Lego in the forseeable future. I've collected my current thoughts in the 'Grand Strategy' thread, but worth mentioning here is the GoW/RP relationship in any future deal.

Relocating RP is worth quite a bit to GoW, and if reason rather than emotion holds sway, they should see that as a substantial payment. We have so far stopped them fulfilling their contract, and now we can deliver it to them. However, we can't have GoW and RP still howling at each other if both are effective allies. So we'd have to seek to get both parties to drop their posturing.

**Tall Stranger** · November 9, 2003, 12:22

Responding to Theseus' points:

RP: Agree that we need to get RP on board, and we need to make sure that we get enough territory on Bob that we can afford to return RP to Bob when the time is right.

Lego/ Vox: I agree with Cort and SR that I see no rational reason for them to join in a war on ND (especially one that seeks their destruction). I fully expect that they will at some point side with ND in this, which means we need to seize a lot of territory very quickly. That plus our naval superiority may enable us to slow down the flow of Lego forces to Bob. As a result, I don't think we even want to give Lego any indication that this war is coming.

I agree with the rest of his points. If ND is only expelled from the continent, they will become another Lego vassel state, which we can not accept.

**Theseus** · November 10, 2003, 19:06

Well, tonight's going to be interesting... chats with BOTH Lego and GoW.

/me makes a not to put POST-ITS above each mIRC window so as not to type the wrong thing in the wrong place!!

**OPD** · November 10, 2003, 19:52

Good Luck Theseus,

wish I could be there too but it's already too late over here

GoW should be quite complicated, although it'd be a good idea to get things moving as quickly as possible.

From Lego try and gage whether there is a possible threat on the east coast.

**Theseus** · November 10, 2003, 20:19

The chat will be at 9pm EST this evening. MZ and Un0, at a minimum, will be in attendance... I'd like to have at least a few people from GS.

Place: #GoW_CoFA
PW: name

**Theseus** · November 10, 2003, 23:24

Damn, we got serious sh*t going on here... anybody who sees this, please jump in.

**vulture** · November 11, 2003, 06:13

Just read the logs this morning. Excellent bit of work there Theseus. If GoW are negotiating in good faith then I think we have a fairly good chance of pulling this off. If we don't attack GoW, Lego stay out of the war, and maybe join in against ND (they'd be foolish not to if we can get GoW to switch sides, otherwise we and GoW will be sharing Bob + Stormia between essentially two civs - they need to hey an equal piece of the action so we all have equal territories for the industrial era).

Once more: Theseus rocks.

**OPD** · November 11, 2003, 09:04

Beach Head on Stormia? What game are they playing.

GoW always overplay their position to the extreme and always try and get much more than they deserve from a deal. That is what happened before the war against RP and that is could happen here. They need to realize that if they ask for too much a team will say screw you then.

They also seem to be sharing our communications with Lego as Lego mentioned the tech request.
I wonder what GoW would do if we simply said give us all your tech or we'll raze all your cities.

Thus far I don't think GoW are offering very much and they seem to be far "in" with Lego.

Perhaps we should ask GoW why a deal with them would be better than a deal where we raze all their cities and share Bob with ND.

If GoW aren't going to give us tech then they should be prepared to do most of the work in taking out ND.

**Cort Haus** · November 11, 2003, 10:03

As soon as they mentioned it, it was apparant it would be a major GS sticking point. It may be that they tout that as a precondition not of an immediate alliance, but for RP's eventual return to Spain, and our permanent presence on Bob.

They pushed it out in the context of a seeking a security guarrantee from us to them that the locked alliance would hold, perhaps in a similar way to the security guarrantee sought by GS from GoW that techs get paid upfront. Both are alarming to the other, yet both sides will insist that they can't trust the other without such serious comittment.

If they insist on it, I don't see an easy way through.

**vulture** · November 11, 2003, 10:07

I don't think GoW are entirely overplaying their position here. We can't raze their cities. We can probably take out Yellowknife, and with luck a few others, but they are recently founded cities which are still small. It would be a pain for GoW, but a blow they could absorb. Meanwhile we gain another enemy. In one sense they have a strong position - we can't do any real damage to the GoW homeland at the moment. In another sense, they don't - they haven't made any recent progress. Pamplona may still be vulnerable, but ND are the only ones benefiting from RPs demise thus far. Carrying on with the war isn't good for GoW.

If either we or GoW get too belligerent, and the deal falls apart, then ND and Lego are the ones who win out, and we and GoW lose, but I think we lose worse.

As for a beach head on Stormia, I'm very much against that. It would put GoW in too strong a position relative to us, militarily. If the murder of ND goes ahead, we end up with an empire more or les equally split on two areas of land (okay, land on Bob may be more scarce than that). GoW would have their land in a single mass. From this point on, they either have 3 move attackers (Riders, Cavalry) or railroads, so they can move forces internally with great speed. Or forces have to be split between two essentially isolated areas - naval transport will be slow relative to GoWs mobility, and even a reasonable sized navy on their part could make shipping hazardous (even if 3/4 transports make it across, we are still losing a lot of troops for very little investment by GoW). True, they have to worry about having to defend a land border, but we have to worry about defending two seperate areas. A beach-head city in the north just gives them even more of a threat (if they get a one turn crossing, we won't even be able to see their ships moving, so we won't know where their troops are massing). Not a good idea from our point of view.

**OPD** · November 11, 2003, 10:35

We can't raze their cities, but they are not aware if this.

We always said that if GS were to invade GoW it would be with a huge force of 40 + knights. Although that is not what we have I believe GoW think we have a force similar to that off their coast. That is what is expected of GS and that is the reason GoW are interested in making a deal. It matters not that we don't have that kind of force. All that matters to GoW is that we could have a force that could raze all their cities.

GoW are likely to try and weasel the deal so that GS gain very little and they and Lego get a much better position.

If GoW aren't going to give tech they should do the brunt of the fighting against ND.

**Theseus** · November 11, 2003, 19:59

No contacts from either Lego or GoW all day.

**OPD** · November 12, 2003, 14:34

yeah no contact here either.

Announcement

Dealing with GoW

Dealing with GoW

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment