Adam Smith's College

[Cort Haus]

So we could start building units around T205-ish as the first factories come online. Rifles to start with, hoping to upgrade to Inf, then Inf & Arty before the Tanks?

All resource-dependent, of course. Should Bombers play a part?

[DeepO]

Bombers are only extras, as far as I can see they make up part of our second wave.

Things to build:
~205: rifles
~210: infs and arty. Also caravels
~215: destroyers
~225: marines and tanks (prebuilded)
~235: upgrade everything needed, and attack.

the first few stages, we're going to need to finish other stuff as well, like the few hospitals we need, markets and harbors, and in WoC every happiness building we can dream off. From ~220 onwards, everything is on military production, and we switch to mobilisation. That should give us over 700 spt, or 7 tanks a turn. my guess is we need a minimum of 150 units to even start to think about attacking Lego...

DeepO

[vmxa1]

You guys are doing a heck of a job and I love the organization.

[DeepO]

some calculation on what one extra lux would bring us, and how much we would be willing to pay for it.

lux provides happy faces (and not content), and if there are no content citizens one happy face will change one unhappy to a happy one, right? If so, the following cities will have an effect by 1 more Lux:

- EotS: WLTKD. Effect minimal, I doubt we will lose the 1 shield waste. Perhaps corruption goes down from 2 to 1 cpt.
- WoC: can grow to size 12, instead of 11. Net effect is that Iron works will arrive one turn faster (at the expense of eta of market in Inchoff), and an extra cpt is created after corruption
- Typhoon can grow to size 12. But its currently at size 10, and before a harbor completes, there is little point in doing so.
- Sufa can grow to size 12, is currently at size 10.
- SA gets into WLTKD, but as fast as it grows, that will end. waste is moderate, perhaps we'll lose 1 spt waste, 2 cpt corruption.
- Inchon gets into WLTKD. 1 spt, 3 cpt gain?
- WW gets into WLTKD. 1 cpt gain?

That's about it. Of course, it won't take long before our whole territory is RRed, and we can pump all city sizes up again, so the effect is greater than what is seen here, but as a positive guess, I come to ~10 cpt, and ~4 spt. That's not much... in total maybe worth 20 gpt to us, so 10 gpt for the lux seems more then enough.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Don't get me wrong, I still would like to see us going for the lux, as it would make us less dependent on Lego... if they cancel the lux deal, one third of our cities would go in disorder. It's just that it's not worth that much to us.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

10gpt sounds better than 20gpt for a lux.

[DeepO]

economical plan for our cities

This is going to take a while to get right. I would prefer it if other people could also take a look at these numbers to see mistakes / improvements, as I'm sure this can be tweaked a lot better than this first idea.

The current turn is 200.... first a timeline of techs:
201: Corp.
203: RP (GoW) Can ultimately wait until 217 to be given to us(and we might need to delay it for the shields. Assumed is immediate handover to us)
207: Steel and refining (refining from GoW, possibily one turn later)
213: Combustion. GoW needs to be on gold in the mean time, and we'll have to sell it this to them to keep a decent time-line.
218: Mass production (either us or GoW, whoever has the best science at that time. Could very well be them.)
222: marines (GoW)
223: tanks (us)
flight can be done by whoever is not doing Mass production, but I'm not sure we'll need it at that time. It can't slow down our progress, though, we'll have plenty of time to do it while building tanks.

At most, count 2 turns delay because of the need to trade techs.

estimate of needed forces
initial force:
30 marines
20 arts (or half of these in bombers)
30 tanks
20 infs
2 settlers and a couple of workers
13 transports to carry these (without chaining)
20 destroyers for protection, picket obliteration, and bombardment. Battleships optional, but not needed (only in case a BS takes as long to build as a destroyer)

immediate reinforcements (at most 2 turns later then initial force):
20 arts or bombers
10 fighters if Lego has bombers
50 tanks
20 infs
couple of settlers and workers
13 transports to carry this
5 destroyers for protection

later reinforcements: whatever we can build and transport. maybe we need more tanks to be sure reinforcements will come quickly. If we can't chain, we'll need enough transports, and should consider ours expandable.

Oh, and this is just a guess... if we can't pull it of with these numbers, we better don't even try.

build costs
rifle: 80
marine: 100
tank: 100
inf: 90
art: 80
galleon: 60
transport: 100
destroyer: 120

specific city timelines
EotS
206: Hoover (will increase spt by 50% for all cities, virtually in 205 as EotS is the first city in the queue)
212: factory (68 spt, ~90 spt in mobilization)
- with a hospital and some losses from either Hurricane or Bolderberg, it can become a 100 spt city. Otherwise it would have to lower pop to 8-9 in order to get a 50 spt, something we can also work with. A hospital will not be needed before turn 222 if we go in mobilization fast, rifles can fill the gap.
215: hospital. add workers. In case we lack rubber, we can do this later
222: 7 infs
from then on 1-turn tanks or marines

Arashi
205: Factory. (60 spt, 82 spt in mobilization)
1 turn rifles or arts without hospital. Otherwise needs to lower pop. Tempest holds the same problem, and has a science wonder, I think it will be best to lower Arashi to 50 spt in mobilization.
222: either 17 rifles / arts, or more likely half of those infs.
From then on, 2-turn tanks.

Tempest
202: factory (45 spt when all hills are used)
206: hospital. Also Hoover, meaning 100 spt in mobilization.
222: 16 infs.
from then on, 1-turn tanks / marines.

D-ville
202: factory (36 spt)
cathedral would lower corruption as it will bring D-ville in WLTKD. Harbor will gain shields as well.
204: with a bit of shortrushing, harbor
207: cathedral (~60 spt, can give some shields to SA to get to 50 spt. mobilization will get it to ~80 spt, but ship builds aren't affected, and we need ships.)
213: 6 galleons
223: 5 transports or destroyers (more will not reach our other coast in time). Choice depends on need for shields for SA.
from then on, 2-turn tanks.

WoC
207: Iron Works (38 spt)
213: factory (if possible to short rush) (57 spt)
215: market
218: cathedral (WLTKD. 75 spt, ~100 spt in mobilization (depends on exact levels of waste in WLTKD).
Note that in mobilization we can't start either a market or a cathedral, and seeing we'll need it soon for other cities, we'll probably have to start these before the factory, or buy those improvements before starting on a factory. Also note that we have plenty of workers to chop some forest we need to plant first, this can help here.
222: 4 infs, 4 arts, or 2 destroyers.
from then on, 1-turn tanks.

The rest is coming, but my eyes grow tired of having to scroll this info all the time.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Bolderberg
205: factory (26 spt, 34 spt Hoover, 50 spt in mob)
BB could be helped with a hospital, as it has 4 more sea tiles nobody else can use, and a bank present (no uni).
Otherwise, it can produce galleons. focus is on units, so let's do that first.
213: 4 galleons (without mob)
222: 3 transports, or 2 destroyers (221)
after that, 2-turn tanks, 3-turn transports or 4-turn destroyers

Hurricane
203: factory (possibly 30 spt, more likely 27 spt)
206: Hoover gets it to 40 spt, or 34 spt (last one probably). 50 spt in mob
[edit:]207: Hospital as per CH's suggestion. [/edit]
213: [edit;]3[/edit] galleons (no mob)
222: 3 transports or 3 destroyers.
after that, 2-turn tanks.

Blizzard
206: factory (34 spt, >50 spt in Mob)
209: market
(cathedral will get it in WLTKD, leading to ~38 spt, ~60 in mob)
213: 2 galleon
222: 3 transports, or 2 destroyers (with the cath, it will be near 3-turn destroyers instead of 4-turn. cath costs 3 turns to build, making it worthwile if things work out all right)
after that, 2-turn tanks

Typhoon
208: factory (30 spt, 42 spt in mob) (should give some shields back to Sufa for better growth)
211: harbor
214: market
222: 2 destroyers
after that, 3-turn tanks

Alternatively, Typhoon is used for growth. can grow to size 17 with hospital (5-6 turns). We need some space for our extra workers... but should need a uni in here as well

WW
211: factory (24 spt, maybe 25. 33 spt in mob)
215: aquaduct
market?
225: 2 destroyers
after that, 3-turns tanks

Monsoon
>217: factory (28 spt. ~36 spt in mob)
3-turn infs

Tornado
203: factory (16spt)
206: Hoover gives 22 spt, or ~33 spt in mob. Can take some from Sufa if we want.
213: 3 galleons
221: 2 transport (or with some rushing 2 destroyers)
from then on, 3-turn tanks

Santa Ana
<215: factory (~25 spt, ~33 spt in mob. Maybe more because D-ville can shrink)
219: market (if not in mob!)
222: 1 inf.
from then on, 3-turn tanks

OG
<216: factory (~25 spt, ~33 spt in mob)
222: 2 destroyers
from then on, 3-turn tanks

Sufa
I'm thinking on stopping the factory build in Sufa. still 22 turns left, after which it will produce 14 spt, 20 spt in mob. If those shields don't go to either Typhoon or Tornado...
a market instead could also help.
anyway:
222: factory (14 spt, 20 in mob)
5-turn tanks

last cities (Elipolis, Inchon, Inchoff) won't build factories, and will focus on the cheapest defenders (a ratio of 15 - to 20 turns per unit). Eli might change into a factory after its harbor (needs 30 turns to complete it, but can have 20 spt in mob), the rest is no use.
Cyclone will stay on 1-turn workers,
SS is a better place to build settlers, or once we don't need those anymore, can become a reasonable second-tier city.

totals
before turn 220, this calculation leads to the following in numbers:

rifles: 17, if discovered late, and with 8 less infs
infs or arts): 7+8+16+2+1 = 34
tanks (or marines, costs the same): 0 (huh)
galleons: 6+4+5+2+3 = 20 (add 3 we have already)
transports: 3
destroyers: 5+2+3+2+2+2+2+2 = 20

After that, we have on average 7.35 tanks per turn, and .33 infs per turn.

Last thing to keep in mind: our workers can, once all mountains and hills have been RRed, forest-deforest all tiles, for some 800 shields extra. These are an additional 8 tanks in our calculations.

conclusion
So, as a first guess, we will need until turn 222 to get our transports, and destroyers in place. We should need a bit more for our defenders, but this might come from upgrading (we have plenty of units around, just not the cash to do decent things with it). for the 80 tanks and 30 marines, we'll need 15 turns after discovery of mot. transp. (part of this when invasion is under way)

That puts our embarkment date somewhere around 234, invasion date at 239. Any later will see us getting more troops, but means we'll probably be facing tanks, bombers, or fighters (scouting) of our own.

Oh, any extra's would be welcome, e.g. a carrier filled with fighters on air-superiority if Lego has bombers (probably).

DeepO

[DeepO]

[edit: this post seems out of place now that the previous one has been filled, so don't mind this ]

damn. I lost my internet connection yesterday night at home, and it hasn't been solved yet (at least half an hour ago it wasn't). I've got a few more cities ready... I'll try to get the rest tonight, and I hope I'll be able to connect, and submit those as well.

Very roughly, we're looking at 37-40 or so turns before invasion if we want to keep our own territory reasonably safe. (that's 32-35 turns before our first boats start sailing)

DeepO

[DeepO]

oh, and any comments more then welcome, it took me so long to make this that I'm sure I made at least a coupld of serious mistakes...

DeepO

[DeepO]

Come to think on it, we probably need a couple of turns more... for two reasons: more defenders on our land (just in case), and picket ships protecting our shores. This would also put us behind Lego on some techs, so we can maximally gain cash.

If we trust ND, there is no real need, however, and we could risk it. The effect would certainly be bigger if we can get to Lego while they only have rifles and infs protecting their shores
DeepO

[Theseus]

Great planning, DeepO!!

A questions and a thought:

* So, mobilization at the end of 215?

* An extra empty Transport or two might be useful for the first wave, just in case.

*

[DeepO]

Yeah, mob in 215 seems near ideal. I'll have to check it, but I think that in the cities where we need other buildings after that time, we can do some forest chopping to speed things up a little. Maybe mob in 214 can work too...

extra tranports: very true... however somehow I don't see us getting these specific numbers and turns anyway. It could very well be that we have a bit less of tanks, for instance. Some of these transports could be empty. Also, incase we can chain, we won't need that many...

Also, in case Lego has flight, and thus can scout where our transports are (they will be warned we're coming when we destroy their pickets), we should probably include more marines in our first wave, at the expense of tanks. But they cost the same, and come at the same time, so economically it's no difference. I'll leave the precise layout of our army to our generals

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh, in our non-factory cities, we could build explorers... these are extremely fun to harrass others with

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

A hospital in Hurricane would help max out the science wonder and Colossus (pre-flight).