Rp 130ad

[Shiber]

Shall we ask RP not to accept NM since they're in anarchy? Or is there a reason why they should have NM now, even though it's improductive and would waste the shields and food in its box?

[Shiber]

RP has the save for quite some time now. Any contacts?

[asleepathewheel]

updates?

This RP turn is nearly due. Is there silence from them? should we be concerned?

[Shiber]

Yes.

I've tried looking for them in IRC but had no luck.
Can someone PM Togas, Dejon or MrWIA or any other contacts you have there? I have to get out.

[notyoueither]

Togas hailed me. Not sure where they are chatting.

[notyoueither]

chatting now on poly server

/join #MilOps Right

[notyoueither]

[notyoueither]

Togas hailed me.

Session Start: Tue Aug 19 21:09:29 2003
Session Ident: Togas
[21:09] Session Ident: Togas (~tom_ogas@c-66-229-208-138.we.client2.attbi.com)
[21:09] *Togas* we are playing the turn right now for Spain
[21:09] *nye* oh
[21:09] *nye* what is the sit?
[21:10] *Togas* not much. ND moved Santiago
[21:10] *Togas* GoW killed one of our mountain spears/spies
[21:10] *Togas* we begin at -15gpt
[21:10] *Togas* but will do what we can to adjust that
[21:11] *nye* what about the nd stack?
[21:11] *Togas* it is 4 4 from pamp
[21:12] *nye* didn;t move?
[21:12] *Togas* btw, there is a barb camp 9999 from madrid
[21:12] *nye* we are on that
[21:13] *Togas* oh, road from pamplona to madrid finished
[21:13] *nye* where are you chatting?
[21:13] *Togas* our workers are stuck one turn
[21:13] *Togas* we are chattgin in our RP channel
[21:13] *nye* they were stuck last turn
[21:13] *Togas* castor & pollox stuck this turn
[21:13] *Togas* last turn they started the road
[21:13] *nye* the road was there during our turn
[21:14] *nye* wow
[21:15] *Togas* strange
[21:15] *Togas* guess it build the road at the very end of our turn?
[21:18] *nye* it was there, or we could not send you trade goods
[21:19] *Togas* shall we meet in milops?
[21:20] *nye* sure
[21:20] *Togas* join #milops right
Session Close: Tue Aug 19 23:36:57 2003

[notyoueither]

Moved to MilOps

Session Start: Tue Aug 19 21:20:58 2003
Session Ident: #MilOps
[21:20] * Now talking in #MilOps
[21:21] * Togas sets mode: +k right
[21:21] * Togas sets mode: +s
[21:21] * dejon has joined #milOps
[21:21] * BigFree has joined #milops
[21:21] *dejon* Hi nye
[21:21] *nye* checking something
[21:21] *dejon* er, I mean Aragorn
[21:21] *dejon*
[21:24] *nye* hehe
[21:24] * Togas pray for a culture flip...
[21:24] *nye* arne told me it was someone called boromir
[21:24] *Togas* why does that always happen for the AI and never for me?
[21:25] *nye* it is rare in mp, but it happens
[21:25] *Togas* If salamanca flipped, all the GoW Riders inside it die, we fort the city with pikes and the battle instantly turns
[21:26] *Togas* I suppose I can dream of such things
[21:26] *BigFree* Its only a size 1, very hard to flip it back
[21:26] *nye* heh. the units don;t die anymore. they go to cap
[21:26] *BigFree* no ****
[21:26] *Togas* damn!
[21:26] *BigFree* in C3C?
[21:26] *nye* ptw
[21:26] *BigFree* hmm, that sucks for us
[21:27] *nye* i had a flip happen to me during testing
[21:27] *Togas* but having GoW w/o those Riders for 15 turns or so would kick ass
[21:27] *dejon* GoW Riders all the way back to northern China - that's not so bad.
[21:27] *nye* yes, it would
[21:28] *nye* for coordination purposes... we are preparing to defend the southern perimiter, and to sail south with a small force to occupy cosatsl cities
[21:28] *dejon* Has GS any suggestions for our galleys? We can't see any GoW boats right now.
[21:28] *nye* we sank two of them
[21:29] *dejon*
[21:29] *nye* where are your boats?
[21:29] *Togas*
[21:29] *nye* i thought i reported that to you. sorry
[21:29] *Togas* our galleys are in the bay south of Port Isolation
[21:29] *dejon* Togas, could you specify - I don't have my civ3 box on (conserving power)
[21:29] *nye* we have that covered. better to go south hunting nd boats maybe
[21:30] *Togas* If you know where the East Coast gems are. We have Isabella 9 of the gems and Pinta 8 8 of them
[21:32] *Togas* 4 Red Zealots (mountain pikes) ... move them 9?
[21:32] *nye* i can't see anything
[21:34] *nye* do you mind other observers?
[21:35] *Togas* not at all
[21:36] *Togas* 4 Red Zealots (mountain pikes) ... move them 9?
[21:37] *Togas* hello?
[21:37] *nye* could someone put up shots?
[21:37] *nye* they help
[21:37] * Togas will take one now
[21:39] *Togas* http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Togas/130start.jpg
[21:40] *nye* thanks.
[21:40] *nye* no sign of damage in pamplona at all?
[21:40] *Togas* we have all 29 units there
[21:40] *nye* hmmm
[21:40] *Togas* some of them were previously damaged, but I'll check to see if any new damage
[21:41] *Togas* doesn't look like any new damage
[21:43] *nye* good. but what are they doing?
[21:43] *Togas* ND's force of 6 ansars, 4 pikes, 2 infs is not very intimidating
[21:43] *dejon* Pamplona isn't in immediate danger, but if we can't stop our foes from running rampant and healing soon...
[21:43] *Togas* the rest of their forces must be elsewhere
[21:43] *Togas* I think their mountain brigade is just designed to keep us pinned in
[21:43] *dejon* waiting to be healed up and for new forces to be built is my guess
[21:43] *nye* well... we will most likely send baots with pike and mi around the south very soon
[21:44] *Togas* it's the luxes they are after
[21:45] *nye* but, we really need some workers over here before we can advance on nd
[21:45] *nye* workers are on the way
[21:45] *dejon* They've taken a good number of our workers.
[21:45] *Togas* just let us know where our 6 workers can help
[21:46] *nye* we need our workers to advance with the stack into the 'moat'
[21:46] *nye* so that we can be more mobile
[21:46] *dejon* btw, in case you aren't already aware, we're running a deficit now (-9 gpt)
[21:46] *Togas* moat?
[21:46] *nye* the row of ripped up raod nw of pamp
[21:47] *nye* *dejon* btw, in case you aren't already aware, we're running a deficit now (-9 gpt)
[21:47] *nye* got that
[21:47] *nye* we can subsidise
[21:47] *Togas* ah
[21:47] *nye* you also get nm back this next turn
[21:47] *Togas* getting NM back should get us in the black
[21:47] *nye* we kept it for a cat and to heal units
[21:47] *dejon* Thanks, great, that should kill the deficit
[21:47] *nye* did arne report that?
[21:47] *dejon* yes, he did
[21:47] *nye* good
[21:47] *Togas*
[21:48] *nye* how many spt is barca?
[21:49] *Togas* 5spt
[21:49] *nye* cool
[21:49] *nye* can it do walls next?
[21:49] *Togas* it's 6 -1 corruption
[21:49] *Togas* yes
[21:49] *nye* very good
[21:49] *nye* might need those
[21:49] *Togas* walls added to queue
[21:50] *nye* after the horse, right?
[21:50] *Togas* btw, pamplona CANNOT add walls to queue
[21:50] *Togas* right
[21:50] *nye* no, you cannot build walls after size 7
[21:50] *nye* they also removed the walls - big city bug
[21:50] *nye* no more +100% at size 7
[21:50] *dejon* is this game running the new patch then?
[21:51] *nye* will be soon
[21:51] *nye* so now size 7 is the same as walls
[21:51] *dejon* next turn cycle?
[21:51] *nye* not sure. i am already using .27
[21:51] *nye* they are compatible for saves
[21:52] *nye* .27 and .21
[21:52] *Togas* not much else to do at this point
[21:52] *Togas* only question is "what to do with the galleys"?
[21:53] *dejon* I guess we sail south
[21:53] *nye* could go hunting north, or south
[21:53] *nye* but we have a handle on any gow fleets
[21:53] *dejon* southwards we could eventually put units aboard for a west coast landing
[21:53] *Togas* true
[21:53] *Togas* let's look long term with the galleys
[21:54] *Togas* eventually will need to reinvade
[21:54] *dejon* yes, and with that jungle - we'll want to invade the ND coast by water
[21:55] *dejon* or at least appear to be
[21:55] *Togas* neither of our cities are in potential harm this turn so we'll hold onto the gold.
[21:56] *dejon* Assuming that GS couldn't use some for important upgrades in the area
[21:56] *dejon* "Some" being ~30g
[21:57] *nye* that is fine
[21:57] *nye* treasury is?
[21:57] *Togas* exactly 40g
[21:57] *dejon* 40, iirc
[21:57] *Togas* interesting
[21:57] *nye* ****
[21:57] *Togas* we began at 40g, -15gpt
[21:57] *nye* no buildings gone?
[21:57] *Togas* end at 40g -9
[21:58] *dejon* yes, we would have been broke with the GS gold
[21:58] *Togas* none
[21:58] *dejon* *without
[21:58] *nye* no units gone?
[21:58] *dejon* scraped by
[21:58] *Togas* no units scrapped that we can tell
[21:58] *nye* do a count
[21:58] *nye* later
[21:58] *nye* i am curious
[21:58] *Togas* first thing to happen was receive 40g. Then we switch from anarchy to monarchy
[21:59] *Togas* then it did the calc to -15gpt
[21:59] *Togas* only unit missing is a spear that GoW killed
[21:59] *Togas* 29 units in pamplona
[21:59] *Togas* 6 workers
[21:59] *Togas* 2 extra scout pikes
[21:59] *Togas* 2 galleys
[21:59] *nye* hmmm. this needs some testing
[21:59] *Togas* strange
[22:00] *nye* that would mean commerce is before diplomacy
[22:00] *Togas* odd
[22:00] *nye* no. commerce is before picking govt
[22:00] *Togas* maybe commerce is at the very end of the turn?
[22:00] *nye* that is it
[22:00] *Togas* and since we ended in anarchy, nothing gained or lost.
[22:01] *nye* so you went through maintenacne before picking monarchy and seeing the -15
[22:01] *Togas* yes
[22:01] *nye* no maintenance in anarchy
[22:01] *Togas*
[22:01] *nye* i should have remembered that. what puzzles me, is the turn before
[22:02] *nye* anyways, would you guys like to discuss anything else?
[22:03] *Togas* all moves done. Just let us know if you need or workers to NOT move to a certain area
[22:03] *dejon* nothing else, I think - just keeping the lines fresh
[22:03] *Togas* we can avoid roads, etc
[22:03] *nye* which workers can move?
[22:03] *Togas* just moved the stack of 4 from pamplona to 6
[22:04] *Togas* and, unfortunately, the 2 are stuck on the road
[22:04] *Togas* but next turn they will move 8
[22:04] *nye* the 4 were there during our turn
[22:04] *Togas* we'll get toledo linked up
[22:05] *Togas* the 4 moved 6 again
[22:05] *Togas* they are 6 of gold mountain
[22:05] *nye* ahhh
[22:05] *nye* ok
[22:05] *nye* destination?
[22:05] *Togas* unknown
[22:05] *nye* ok
[22:05] *Togas* was going to be the toledo area
[22:06] *nye* actually, a road there would be handy
[22:06] *nye* same at pamp 6 3 3
[22:06] *Togas* there ...?
[22:06] *nye* setting up a southern perimeter
[22:07] *Togas* I see, we'll road the hills
[22:07] *Togas* between toledo and pamplona
[22:07] *nye* nothing definite yet, but talking next turn would be good
[22:07] *Togas* we'll keep talking
[22:07] *nye* if castor and pollus can do toledo 2 1, that would be good
[22:07] *Togas* they can
[22:08] *nye* brb
[22:10] *nye* back
[22:10] *nye* dejon, ideas for striking back?
[22:11] *dejon* sorry, was gone for sec there.
[22:11] *nye* np
[22:12] *nye* we can most likely clear 2 of those southern cities pretty soon
[22:12] *nye* gow is most likely gathering at salamanca
[22:12] *dejon* My first thought would be to use slower Spanish forces to draw attacks, letting GS knights then attack from behind. We could do this to reclaim cow valley, but it gets tricky past the jungle..
[22:13] *Togas* if the south is attacked, GoW may well leave Salamanca
[22:13] *nye* let them run around, back and forth
[22:13] *nye* we land, they leave, we take, then leave
[22:13] *nye* or... we could take and hold
[22:13] *dejon* the south doesn't have any defenders - only quick movers - it should be simple to retake, but subject to counter attacks.
[22:13] *nye* but that means no spare forces for eastern spain
[22:14] *Togas* depends on if GoW sends a lot of reinforcements to the east
[22:14] *Togas* we're going to need to watch for that
[22:14] *nye* perhaps
[22:14] *dejon* Togas - can you check if GoW/ND have a RoP?
[22:15] *nye* i doubt it, actually
[22:16] *Togas* not showing up, we have no embassy with either
[22:16] *nye* damn, neither do we
[22:16] *Togas* wait a sec, we do have an embassy with ND...
[22:16] *Togas* at least that's what the espionage shows.
[22:16] *dejon* hmm - I'd love to know if we could only expect more GoW forces down the east, or if they might travel straight through ND lands.
[22:17] *Togas* but I still see no lines between GoW & ND
[22:17] *dejon* Oh well, just a thought
[22:17] *nye* rop is sellected? you can see our rop?
[22:18] *Togas* yes
[22:18] *Togas* I don't even see the peace line between the two
[22:18] *Togas* which genereally means no embassy
[22:18] *Togas* but in the espionage screen it shows the embassy w/ ND
[22:18] *dejon* nye - what do you think of a basic strat of spanish forces up front covering for GS knights, and after GS takes a city, RP can then defend it with the slow units.
[22:18] *Togas* ... however, no little circle next to Arabs in F4
[22:20] *Togas* 4 Im going to send off the save
[22:20] *Togas* any last questions? Comments?
[22:20] *nye* ok, togas
[22:20] *dejon* all good
[22:20] *nye* dejon, joint ops is the way to go
[22:20] *nye* we are short on pikes actually
[22:20] *Togas* we will focus primarily on pikes/inf
[22:20] *Togas* cheaper units
[22:20] *dejon* I agree. We just need to pick our first few targets very strategically.
[22:21] *nye* yes
[22:21] *dejon* With RP in monarchy and short of funds, pikes make lots of sense for the next while
[22:24] *nye* actually...
[22:24] *dejon* What is better: a) retake a lux; b) make a strategic incursion into cow valley (Zaragoza or Leon); or c) launch an unexpected offensive on an original ND city
[22:24] *nye* we might arrange an advance on salamanca
[22:25] *nye* i had been thinking leon
[22:25] *dejon* to draw forces away from the coastal cities?
[22:25] *nye* but...
[22:25] *Togas* if we attack salamanca, those city walls have to go
[22:25] *nye* no matter which way we go, we leave a flank of pamplona open to 8+ 3 move 4 attack units
[22:26] *nye* so, that limits what rp can sent, yes?
[22:26] *dejon* yes, pamp is subject to attack until we retake Leon, Zara & Salamanca
[22:26] *dejon* or at least threaten them in some way
[22:26] *nye* if gs could get the south back, in force... that would help a great deal
[22:27] *nye* how much help do you think our knights parked beside pamplona are?
[22:28] *dejon* in happiness and funds yes, but might it be more important to deal damage to the attacking forces right now, before more GA reinforcements arrive?
[22:28] *nye* i agree. could we pin and destroy the 9 gow riders in the south?
[22:28] *dejon* RE: pamp knights - more psychologically than actual
[22:28] *nye* could we pin anything at leon?
[22:28] *Togas* we just need to pin them in a non-hill non-walled city
[22:28] *dejon* 29 units ni pamp aren't going to fall easily
[22:29] *dejon* or even half that
[22:29] *nye* what is the break down in pamp?
[22:29] *Togas* pamp is 12spt
[22:29] *Togas* growth in 2 turns
[22:29] *nye* forces?
[22:30] *nye* 4kn, 8 cat
[22:30] *Togas* 8 cats, 10 pikes, 7 inf, and 4 knights
[22:30] *nye* ok...
[22:30] *Togas* will be 11 pike next turn
[22:30] *dejon* some regs in that mix
[22:30] *dejon* iirc
[22:30] *nye* ahh, i know what nd's stack is about now
[22:31] *Togas* yes, and unfortunately we sold our barracks in BCN so that makes reg units too
[22:31] *nye* they are pinning forces in pamp for now
[22:31] *dejon* but 6 ansars isn't enough to pin us - they're underestimating our numbers
[22:31] *nye* if say 6 pike, 5 inf, 4 knights and 4 cats went to leon
[22:32] *nye* and 8 pike, 8 cats, 12 knights of gs
[22:32] *nye* what would you do with leon?
[22:32] *Togas* they'd probably scrap it
[22:32] *nye* yes, and rip up roads around it
[22:32] *Togas* but if so, it opens up the whole of cow valley to us
[22:32] *dejon* last time they put all avail units into it
[22:33] *nye* what is cow valley?
[22:33] *dejon* from the looks of that battle
[22:33] *Togas* cow valley = land to the north of the mountains, and south of the jungle
[22:33] *nye* eastern spain?
[22:33] *Togas* NW spain
[22:33] *nye* i had it right
[22:33] *dejon* vigo/santiago/zaragoza/leon/pamp
[22:33] *nye* oh damn. yes, western
[22:33] *Togas* it originally was just the area west of pamplona, but later went all the way to the coast
[22:34] *nye* somne of my comments must leave you scratching your heads
[22:34] *Togas* not a problem. I forget that some of our internal names aren't so obvious
[22:34] *dejon* no worries, I screw up W and E sometimes too - even *****ed about Togas not following my orders once, which were wrong. :P
[22:34] *nye* also, if we move on leon, all of nd's forces are there
[22:35] *nye* if we move on slamanca... ?
[22:35] *Togas* Salamanca is a deathtrap waiting to happen
[22:35] *Togas* we'd lose 2x as many units as GoW taking that city back.
[22:35] *nye* for us?
[22:35] *dejon* Would you leave available forces in southern spain if it looked like RP/GS were about to split the valley again?
[22:36] *nye* problem with moving on leon
[22:36] *nye* 6 ansars on that mountain, and 9 riders in the south
[22:36] *BigFree* depends on how many cats we use
[22:36] *dejon* if we retake Leon, ND will cry for GoW to attack us, which is good, since we don't want to attack Sala
[22:37] *nye* i see 15 knights able to pounce on pamplona
[22:37] *Togas* retaking Leon also extends our supply lines, perhaps too much
[22:38] *Togas* what about retaking zaragoza?
[22:38] *nye* maybe better to let gs clear the south, first
[22:38] *Togas* true, the south needs to be cleared
[22:39] *nye* zaragoza is worse than either leon or salamanca
[22:39] *Togas* narrow the front down a bit
[22:39] *nye* with gow with 9 riders on one side, and nd with unkown ansars on the other, i don't think you can afford to move much of anything out of pamplona
[22:39] *dejon* I like the idea of cleaning the south, but how long will it take? I'm picturing a fairly large ND war production cranking Ansars these days.
[22:40] *nye* it would take time
[22:41] *nye* classified information. i think the three here are trustable
[22:41] *nye* our gnp and mfg are still #1
[22:41] *Togas*
[22:41] *nye* that goes no further, please
[22:41] *Togas* np
[22:41] *dejon* Assuming that ND/GoW is underestimating our capital forces - we should make use of it.
[22:41] *nye* not even the team
[22:42] *Togas* will keep it confidential
[22:42] *nye* thank you
[22:42] *nye* dejon, make use of it?
[22:42] *nye* how could they underestimate?
[22:43] *nye* they just saw the leon army go back into there
[22:43] *dejon* How about staging a small force into the mtns - to look like we're setting up a dual front between Leon/Sala - when the purpose is to draw them to attack Pamp too early and lose units against the numerous forces remaining there.
[22:43] *dejon* but the leon army is only half of what is there
[22:43] *nye* hmmm. send what to where?
[22:44] *dejon* maybe north of Sala?
[22:45] *nye* how much?
[22:46] *dejon* and should they attack the small force on the mtn - that's okay too - odds in our favour, I believe. They will think their superior numbers will win the day, when we're actually trying to whittle their numbers.
[22:46] *dejon* hmm - good question - 11 pikes next turn
[22:46] *nye* that could be cool, about the time we are approaching salamaca
[22:46] *dejon* in total, that is, in Pamp
[22:46] *Togas* yes
[22:46] *Togas* we could put the small army 1 4 of pamp
[22:46] *nye* or sooner, to whittle down some forces
[22:47] *Togas* next turn our army should be fully healed
[22:47] *nye* 1 4 allows the nd ansars to attack and retreat, or win, without leaving their pikes
[22:48] *nye* 1 1 would threaten salamanca, not acrosss a river, and leave nd ansars that retreated open to rp knights from pamp
[22:48] *dejon* true - 1 1? only threatens Sala
[22:48] *nye* 1 4 does not threaten leon, really, does it?
[22:49] *dejon* not on the first move
[22:49] *nye* would you go further?
[22:49] *dejon* it they hadn't take the bait, sure
[22:49] *Togas* I like 1 1
[22:49] *dejon* 11 works though
[22:50] *nye* that could be good, as a joint op
[22:50] *dejon* as for the force, maybe something like 4 pikes, 2 inf, 2 cats, and 2 knights?
[22:50] *nye* no cats, no raod
[22:50] *Togas* no cats
[22:50] *dejon* right
[22:50] *Togas* I'd prefer to leave the knights hidden for now
[22:51] *nye* 4 pikes and 4 inf more like it. credible
[22:51] *dejon* I always forget that.
[22:51] *nye* Togas, they have seen knights, i think
[22:51] *Togas* I don't think they have
[22:51] *Togas* knights have never left pampl
[22:51] *nye* we saw knight on top one or two turns while gow was in the mountains around pamplona
[22:51] *Togas* damn
[22:51] *nye* 3 def vet
[22:51] *dejon* 4 pikes, 4 medinf? Doesn't seem like enough.
[22:52] *Togas* we have always seen the pikes on top
[22:52] *nye* pikes were 3 def reg
[22:52] *nye* maybe they did not see it
[22:52] *nye* but we did
[22:54] *nye* one problem for advancing
[22:54] *nye* our workers are minimum 4 turns from anywhere
[22:55] *nye* we need to repair road in the south, we need to repair road in the north
[22:55] *nye* whichever way we go
[22:56] *Togas* we'll have to manage with 4 turns, then.
[22:56] *Togas* unless we can find a way to use our workers
[22:56] *dejon* brb
[22:58] *nye* problem is, we can not protect your workers with our stack when we advance into hostile territory
[22:59] *Togas* nod

[notyoueither]

[23:03] *dejon* back
[23:03] *dejon* at what stage are the roads critical to battle?
[23:03] *nye* when we advance
[23:04] *nye* take the break at val 8 8 8
[23:04] *nye* we can go into it without workers, and out pike sare stuck for 2 turns to cross it
[23:04] *nye* or, with workers, we advance as usual the next turn
[23:05] *dejon* could you sail your pikes down to meet your knights?
[23:06] *nye* we go inland to slamanca
[23:06] *Togas* btw, we could place several pikes and inf on a mountain and NAME ONE OF THEM "Senor Donde Esta"
[23:06] *Togas* see if we can't get GoW to attack the stack
[23:06] *nye* donde esta?
[23:07] *Togas* Roughly: WhereItsAt. MrWIA's first (and only) attempt at a Spanish name
[23:07] *nye* ahhh
[23:07] *nye* yes, that would get uno in a lather
[23:07] *nye* he seems to be very into this
[23:07] *dejon* heh - we'd have better luck with a direct curse on UnOrthOdOx
[23:07] *dejon* "The trappings of bad writing"
[23:07] *Togas* LOL
[23:08] *nye* haha
[23:08] *Togas* i'm just waiting for the final chapter when the hero character laments that his homeland and everything he loves is destroyed because he devoted his life to destruction, and he is reaping what he sewed.
[23:09] *nye* we can hope
[23:10] *dejon* Okay, on topic, I don't like holding up a long overdue counter assualt for workers - could we just have the knights wait a turn for the pikes to accompany?
[23:10] *nye* dejon. we are not going to wait and do nothing
[23:11] *dejon* of course, I'm just a little anxious to fight back
[23:11] *nye* valencia and murcia are there to be taken back
[23:11] *dejon*
[23:11] *dejon* Togas - will they get autorazed?
[23:11] *dejon* If GS takes them, that is.
[23:11] *nye* most likely, if not...
[23:11] *Togas* I think valencia might
[23:11] *nye* that will be interesting
[23:11] *Togas* I don't mind so much if they autoraze
[23:11] *Togas* one less city to have to defend
[23:12] *nye* true, the less that is down there, the more they will concentrate in slamanca for collecting
[23:13] *dejon* where is the GS force presently?
[23:13] *nye* all over western spain
[23:13] *nye* *eastern
[23:13] *nye* 5k and 4 pike near pamp
[23:13] *dejon* Could you not travel past Pamp and attack from Pamp 11, like we were think for us?
[23:14] *nye* 8p available for north or south
[23:14] *nye* 8k
[23:14] *nye* yes, actually, we could
[23:15] *dejon* isn't that faster than waiting for workers?
[23:15] *nye* yes, yes it is
[23:15] *nye* 3 turns before we could have cats next to salamanca
[23:16] *Togas* would it help if we first brought in our cats to bombard salamanca on our turn
[23:16] *dejon* on the flood plains?
[23:16] *Togas* then you strike from the mountain into the city
[23:16] *nye* 9 riders. what would protect the cats?
[23:16] *Togas* the riders would be tied up by GS taking salamanca
[23:16] *Togas* we'd have to protect the cats from ND
[23:17] *Togas* I don't think ND could get ansars to that tile
[23:17] *Togas* they'd stop in the forest tile
[23:17] *nye* you advance into the flood plains, we advance into the mountains. they do what?
[23:17] *dejon* our cats are part of the Pamp defense though - if we're taking a small force out of Pamp, we should keep most of the cats in there
[23:18] *Togas* true, we'd have to move our cats FIRST, then attack next turn. Bollocks
[23:19] *nye* i think we are in for a long, grinding fight
[23:20] *dejon* Time is on our side - thats okay.
[23:20] *nye* yes, how long til gow does something erratic
[23:20] *nye* keep working on them, not in their face, just bit by bit
[23:20] *dejon* and their GAs will run out eventually
[23:21] *dejon* Togas - do we have a count of turns on the ND GA?
[23:21] *Togas* not offhand
[23:21] *Togas* we need to go back and find the turn of their invasion
[23:21] *nye* if we push in the south, that might send them onto the walls of pamplona
[23:22] *Togas* we want them to attack Pamplona
[23:22] *nye* us coming in the south would prompt that
[23:22] *nye* they know they have no hope of holding those cities if we push it
[23:23] *nye* what do they do?
[23:23] *nye* either fight us there, and be whittled down, or charge
[23:23] *nye* do i have that right?
[23:23] *Togas* I think they'll charge IF they feel we've left open the gates of Pamplona
[23:24] *dejon* we want to bait them in
[23:24] *dejon* not scare them off
[23:24] *Togas* I wish they'd charge out of "desperation" but I think not. They are too cautious
[23:25] *dejon* It might take a public statement of desperation on our part about our plight to give them the overconfidence to attack Pamp
[23:25] *Togas* what if we asked them for a ceasefire?
[23:27] *dejon* I think some sign that "we're prepared to roleplay our unit deaths to the bitter end" would do it - a ceasefire involves too much talk - we want them to interpret and react - diplomacy involves thinking
[23:28] *dejon* some sort of sign that we'd rather go out in a blaze of glory, if you know what I mean
[23:29] *Togas* hmm...
[23:31] *dejon* It needs to be obviously and official though, or they'll ignore it as normal RP fluff.
[23:32] *Togas* post about it in our forum, let's see if we can shape it up into some sort of real "bait"
[23:33] *Togas* 4 looks like they attacked in 10bc
[23:34] *dejon* noted
[23:36] *nye* i go now. good luck, gentlemen.
[23:36] *Togas* thanks
Session Close: Tue Aug 19 23:36:47 2003

[Velociryx]

Thanks for the screenie, NYE! Pouring over it now, and will start writing up a proposal to kick around/add my two cents...

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

I'm posting this here as well as in Vel's thread:

The pikeman in the mountains (Red Zealots) needs to move 4, 7, and fortify! That blocks the road through the mountains that ND could use to reinforce the south. If ND decides to punch through, they could, but they would have to deal with 3hp of 6.75 defense and of course we would be alerted by the loss of the unit.

-Arrian

p.s. If Togas did move the unit 9 this turn, it then needs to go 4, 4 the next two turns.

[Shiber]

Just a random question: does the GW effect applies to 7+ size cities as well? Because otherwise, when a walled town under our control turns into a city we actually lose +50% defense bonus.

[Arrian]

I think that, since the wall bug was patched out, it is better for us to have a size 6 town with walls, than a city.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

That's my understanding as well, which means we should control growth in our cities close to the front....make sure that the ones we keep maximize their defensive benefits for us!

We should also work out some kind of generalized defensive plan....subject to change and revision of course, but say, on average, consider a strike group (thinking for RP here) of 3 pikes and 2 med infs.....recommending that they keep three such groups in all forward cities at a minimum (9p,6mi's). That ought to be enough of a stack to ward off all but the most hellish attacks. Near the back (southern towns, after we liberate), one such group per town ought to do it, provided that we keep a mobile strike force in the area to assist with mop up duties as needed (~6 knights or so).

from the map I saw, it looks like ND is the easier target to reach in terms of who to swat after we consolidate and solidify things....is that the general assessment, or is this piece of map I'm seeing leading me to the wrong conclusion?

-=Vel=-