Beginnings

[notyoueither]

Well, we are in a spot, are we not? The question is... what are we gonna do about it?

We can sit on our hands between turns and wait for the next moves by ND and GoW, then react to them. That has not worked so well so far. Or, we could come up with a plan on how we are going to salvage this situation. I favour doing something by coming up with a plan. So here goes.

In this thread, please, let us not bog down on reaction to the last turn. We need a bigger plan than that. The plan we need consists of several parts.

A. Defend what is left of Spain.

B. Take the fight to the enemy.

C. Prepare for eventualities.

I think we should begin by planning for the defense of Spain and our beachhead. That is what I will start with. Taking the fight to the enemy is another topic. We can start that soon. Preparing for eventualities will come in here and there. They are the wtf factors. The more of them we can consider in advance, the better.

Now, let's pick our chins up and get busy, we have some work to do.

[notyoueither]

Defense of the Beach Head


The large blue dot at NM 1 1 is the site for a fortress. Small town with walls.

The blues dots are observation posts. 1 pike at P 3 3, and 2 or more pikes at Barca 4. There is an additional OP NE of NM to provide warning of encroachment from that direction.

The red line is Death Valley. The OPs are there to provide us with warning if riders and or ansars begin moving up the valley to threaten NM and Sirocco.

We would have RP switch Barca to walls, complete them, and give us the city. We give NM back to Spain. I would like to see Spain with Toledo as well, although we will want to leave 4 pikes in the area to be able to take over defense of that city should the need arise.

Forces required are 4+ pikes for OPs (2+ at Barca 4). 4 pikes in Barca. 2 pikes in the fortress at NM 1 1. 4 pikes near Toledo. 14 pikes.

The idea is to free up our forces to be able to range farther afield, and to provide us time to redeploy those forces and to use arriving reinforcements to defend and counter attack GoW/ND if and when they threaten from the South.

Ideally, we build roads at Barca 8 7 and P 6 3 3 to give routes for knights and mi's to reach riders before they can crash the gates of the fortress at NM 1 1. Road tiles are red dots.

[notyoueither]

Also, we need some workers over here pronto. 6 would be preferred. 3 for 1 turn roads on hills, and more to get the mountain tiles reroaded fast. A fortress at Barca 4 would be good too, but can wait a bit.

[Shiber]

Shall I prioritize loading pikes and workers next turn?
Also - which workers shall we send first? (I assume the ones that were working on rebuilding the road to the horses would make a good start).

[OPD]

I don't see myself as a military tactician at all but if I were GoW and ND I'd set up a combined offensive against Pamp, they can attack from the NW with 3 move units easily and they can just sit back and build up troops 3 tiles away behind the river with pretty much nothing we can do about it.

If we want to overcome this we need to focus on our strengths, change the game so that it suits us. We cannot challenge production wise (unless we get RP into a GA and gift them all our cities ) so where is our advantage? I don't really know not having looked at the save for a while are we ahead in tech? Our super galleys, and sheers number give us the advantage.
How long will it be untill we get Gunpowder and MilTrad?

[Shiber]

Military Tradition is waaaaay ahead of us, but Gunpowder is within reach. Problem is, we're gonna have to pay first researcher costs for both Invention and Gunpowder.
I don't think that we need to head this way (though Lego might agree to our proposal to research Invention instead of Banking, and then we will). Besides, we are already strong enough on the defense (GW). Somehow, we have to disrupt the plans that GoW and ND must be making to converge on Pamplona.

[asleepathewheel]

time for a counter attack on the GoW homeland?

[OPD]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
time for a counter attack on the GoW homeland?

If we were to upgrade those WC's we could have some knights on the tile next to port isolation real!! soon.

[notyoueither]

I think going at either ND in Spain, or GoW in the North is in the cards. However, in the meantime we will have to hold off 9 Riders and later ND in the south.

The diagram above is a longer range plan for how to secure this area.

[zeit]

Let me also suggest we first deal with GoW's presence in and around S, before we counter attack against ND's conquered area. GoW can't bring reinforcements, but their 8-9 riders are a (rather large) thorn in our side. Unless ND and GoW attack with enormous luck I'd say we have the forces in place to destroy them and retake the area in about 5 turns- lets plan for it.

[Theseus]

Here is what I envision:

I think that both ND and GoW are overcommitted and undermanned. Yes, they both have the awesome advantage of 3-move attack units... but they have themselves created the situation that will be their undoing.

Think of where there strength is: to the northwest. By extending so far into RP's lands, they have created an arc around the RP/GS core. That arc is the key... that is where we will force both to waste their 3-moves.

Give NM back to RP. We keep Toledo... both of our teams need a forward city to heal troops.

We jointly turtle. Perhaps that is the wrong image; we create a FORTRESS, we control the key defense points, we force ND and GoW into kill zones of our design. We LASH OUT at them as they futily try to control the non-productive territory that they so foolishly think they have won.

Keep enough of a mobile threat in the west and south that they are forced to continue to commit resources there, and waste their 3-moves on that distance. But no set piece battles until they are drained, and until we are able to use our production advantage to bring massive troops in for the kill, at a place and time of our own choosing.

We are Russia in the 50s and 60s of the real world. We will use space, the arc, the space that they have 'won', to our advantage. And then, as NATO used to say, we will roll over them... when quantity has a quality all its own.

Specifics to follow.

[Theseus]

While responding to nye's move suggestions in the turn thread, I think we are generally on the same page...

In general, we and RP need to stake down the borders of the fortress territory, and maintain several mobile strike forces to threaten, defend, and chip away at loose units.

[Velociryx]

Tuning in late here...got Master Theseus' message this morning, but either 'poly was down most of the morning and into the afternoon, or our gateway at work was blocking my access to the site....What do we have, exactly? I mean, in terms of us/allied forces, what do we have to work with in the region? What do we know with absolute certainty that we're facing?

I don't see the three move units as being terribly much of an advantage if we opt for an essentially defensive posture and use the prevailing terrain and road network wisely....can nullify most of that advantage with our own two move units (which are twice as good as their three move boys if we've got--or can get--good roads.

-=Vel=-

[Theseus]

Roads and key defensive points being the issue.

Combat engineers... everybody remember the US Navy Seabees?

As great as the Vox defense was, I can see our Bobian adventures going down as LEGEND!

[Velociryx]

The way I see it is this:

The situation we currently find ourselves in is strongly similar to the situation we found ourselves in, during the last war.

On Bob, we are outgunned, and out-maneuvered at present.

And, just like that last war, we've got 100% of our native productive capability (back on the home continent) to help us weather the storm.

The techs have changed, but the game remains largely the same, and what will win us this war is a fallback to the fundamentals.

We have to be committed to making the sacrifices necessary.

That means getting workers onto the beachhead property, battoning down the hatches, and staking a strong claim to what's ours and what's gonna stay ours, and building out from lthere like an irresistable hurricane.

It means mapping out (per NYE's screenie above), some turf and honestly assessing what, and where specifically we're gonna do to keep it.

It means keeping every boat we have in the water righteously busy ferrying more guys across the pond to keep on bolstering our strength, and when we're ready, it means knocking the p*ss out of our enemies....one at a time (whomever it's most convenient/easiest to strike at, we naile them to the freakin' wall while holding against the other side.

Once we bring about one side's swift destruction (which should be easy with an ally in tow), then we'll be poised to end the matter decisively.

The trick to countering Lego's involvement is to ensure that our ally grows as we grow on Bob....so that if Lego jumps in, it merely evens things back out to a 2:2 fight (and if we focus all efforts on one unfortunate civ, that's exactly what it'd be).

-=Vel=-