RP, Our Vassals

[ManicStarSeed]

So War has broken out on Bob. ND and GoW vs RP, RP suspects that GoW will turn on ND once RP is weakened "enough".

RP is willing to give us a footing on Bob, trade us some cities and become our long term vassals for assistance against their foes.

Read thediplomacy logs for the latest discussions on RP becomming our vassal
Please discuss and vote. This is not binding, it is just an opinion poll.

[asleepathewheel]

I don't trust them one bit.

Will they willingly become our vassals?

Perhaps. Perhaps they can roleplay that out.

But whatever they do in the game, its still a game to be in to win. They manipulated Vox into attacking us-the records are sealed until we agree to this, even then probably are falsified, blacked out.

Togas has been a real bastard

but...we can't let personal feelings cloud our judgment on the matter.

I am leaning towards the Bilbao maneuver, if for nothing else it will put GoW on the defensive and confuse them as to what to do.

We can give them Engineering. They could give us ivory (?)

I just see a major doublecross coming....

[Octavian X]

Like I said at the chats, while this does sound good for our end, I'm unconvinced.

First off, while RP really remain loyal to us one the danger has passed? They don't exactly have a clean record. If we did succesfully defend RP this time around and they did become vassels, that would also force us into another war when GoW and ND attack again...

Wouldn't this almost kill our relations with ND and GoW? GoW won't be one to honor our NAP. Both will likely remain bitter for a long while, and our potential cities on Bob wouldn't be very safe.

Then again, if we can keep all three Bobian civs there, our only real opponents would be Lego.

[asleepathewheel]

Right. An agreement with RP would likely kill everything with ND and GoW for the remainder of the game. Unless of course GoW betrays ND which I could see happening. Which means that we would have to end them, now. kill them all.

What would lego think? From what Vondy and Tiby have said, they don't see a problem with the MPP break. Has RP approached them about this stuff?

[Aeson]

If we're going to do this, we need to do it right. RP can't have any reservations about gifting a city we'll need to block/hinder/annoy GoW into breaking the NAP. RP needs everything they have W of the Mountains to hold off ND... let us hold the GoW side and then help them out in the W.

NM, Toledo, and Barcelona could be given back after it's all said and done, but we'd need them in the meantime.

[Octavian X]

Actually, now that I think about it, I'd be much more comfortable about the whole vassel thing if RP let one of their Lords observe the goings-on in their forum. That is,RP lets someone from our team into their forum. That way, we could keep an eye on them...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Octavian X
Actually, now that I think about it, I'd be much more comfortable about the whole vassel thing if RP let one of their Lords observe the goings-on in their forum. That is,RP lets someone from our team into their forum. That way, we could keep an eye on them...

Nice. We could really roleplay that up. But would they go for it? Really? I doubt it. Plus they could just use an alternate method of double crossing us-ims or chats or another forum.

Aeson:


Agreed. lets antagonize GoW into screwing up.

[notyoueither]

It is a much better deal than GoW and ND are offering.

The lands we gain will be much better for us long term than any others on the map. South Bob has been our target since we have seen the map. It just makes sense.

Honestly, I am not concerned with turning off a team that attacked an MPP partner, no matter how big a loop hole they may have. ND has never been friendly to people off of Bob, especially if those people saw a destiny on Bob.

ND are actually our biggest rivals at the moment. They are the ones who seek to block our progress. This kills 2 birds with one stone. We get down in South Bob, and take Spanish cities there while bolstering RP with former ND lands.

I say yes.

[Aeson]

I agree. We were basically looking at fighting RP then possibly GoW/ND. Instead we change that to GS+RP vs ND, RP vs GoW, and perhaps GS vs GoW or even GoW vs ND.

It's better on all accounts it seems. THe only drawback is if this is somehow some grand scheme to give us cities on Bob so they can take a couple cities of ours on Bob... which makes no sense.

[asleepathewheel]

Whats the worst that could happen? We are practically invulnerable in our homeland, and no one can cross and land if we are busy ferrying units across the channel.



Crazy idea:

They land the units from that ship this turn on our land

We move, say, six catapaults near their units. we also gift them the nearest city. They declare war, take the cats, move everything to the city, ask for peace gifting the city back. Boom, they have those two units and a bunch of cats, only loaned of course.

[Harovan]

Going after GoW and ND instead of RP has been my preferred option from the beginning. To get a tiny bit of RP in exchange of a big military effort and have two strenghtened Bobian civs looking greedily at it never has appealed me much. Unfortunately, we can't attack GoW directly, but have to lure them into breaking the NAP. This makes it harder, but still possible.

The big question is, can we trust RP? Which basically means, can we trust Togas?

/me shudders.

[Aeson]

I'm trying to think of a reason why they would stage this, and I'm drawing blanks. Anyone?

Basically it would mean RP, GoW, and ND are all against us, which doesn't make any sense. They have to hit us in Stormland to hurt us. Giving us territory on Bob to hit doesn't really hurt us... it just hurts them.

I think we should ask for Toledo initially, along with Bilbao. If they are willing to part with a size 6 city, it would show a lot. It would keep GoW at bay, and if they see RP is just going to give everything to us instead of letting them have it, they will have to decide to break the NAP, or attack somewhere else.

If we get those two cities before GoW can enter our new territory, then they can't enter our territory to pass us by. If we get the cities with GoW's units next to them, then they can use their movement to bypass our territory completely, thus complicating things.

[Harovan]

I'm already at work and don't have access to a map. Can anyone put a map up, as discussion base? It should contain the theater of war as well as our western coast.

[nbarclay]

At the moment, I'm leaning more toward not giving GoW or ND a clue that we're getting involved on the "wrong" side until we have troops marching on ND's territory. I'm not sure how close we could get before being spotted, but with a little luck, we might be able to take some cities before ND can get their forces (especially the slow-movers) back from attacking RP. Our attack would basically set things up so ND has to pull back from RP to fight for their lives against us, and GoW can't get involved in the GS/ND war without clearly and directly violating a NAP. RP would then find themselves taking on GoW one on one, which they could probably handle (at least if they haven't already been hurt too badly), assuming GoW wants to push the fight with their partner effectively out of the action.

[asleepathewheel]

I don't know how we could mask anything if RP is going to gift us cities this turn or next. Though that does buy us a turn or two to prepare, and for ND to get further bogged down.